Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

Positive Psychology Techniques to Boost Teen Mental Health: Simple Strategies for Parents

Dr. Cam Caswell is joined by Mark Fussell to explore powerful strategies for supporting teens' mental health. Mark shares insights from his platform, Take Two Minutes, which focuses on boosting mental wellness through positive psychology. They discuss practical tools like gratitude journaling, grounding exercises, and breathing techniques to help teens manage emotions and anxiety. The episode emphasizes the importance of patience, kindness, and love in fostering a supportive environment for teens' mental health.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How to support teens' mental health using positive psychology and proven techniques
Effective strategies for managing anxiety, including gratitude journaling and grounding exercises
The impact of gratitude on rewiring the brain for better emotional wellness
Why patience, kindness, and love are essential when supporting teens' mental health
Tips for fostering emotional resilience and helping teens bounce back from negativity
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Mental health is crucial for teens, and there are many ways parents can support their well-being.
Take Two Minutes platform offers accessible tools for enhancing mental wellness through positive psychology.
Gratitude journaling, grounding exercises, and breathing techniques are effective for reducing anxiety and improving emotional health.
Support requires patience and the willingness to try different strategies that resonate with your teen.
Positive reinforcement and kindness can help teens overcome emotional hurdles and thrive.
 
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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Take Two Minutes platform - Website
Use coupon code "DRCAM" for 20% off Take Two Minutes platform.
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Supporting Teens' Mental Health
04:02 Tools for Managing Emotions and Anxiety
08:58 The Power of Gratitude in Rewiring the Brain
10:57 The Importance of Patience and Trying Different Strategies
12:32 Grounding Exercises for Calming Anxiety
18:31 Recognizing Positivity and Rebounding from Negative Experiences
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Mark Fussell
Website: take2minutes.org
Instagram: @take2min
Facebook: @take2min
YouTube: @take2min
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:02.636)
Today we're diving into a topic that couldn't be more crucial, your teens' mental health. As parents, we all want our kids to thrive emotionally, but knowing how to support them can sometimes feel overwhelming. So we've got some game -changing proven strategies that we're gonna give to you so they're right at your fingertips during the tough times. That's why I'm thrilled to have Mark Fussell with us today. Mark is the founder of Take Two Minutes, a platform that's all about boosting mental wellness through the science of positive psychology. Mark is here to share actionable techniques that you can start using right away. Welcome, Mark.
 
Marc S Fussell (00:40.344)
Thank you, Dr. Kam. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me.
 
Dr. Cam (00:43.248)
Yeah, this is a very important topic and I know I talk to a lot of parents that just want tools or like just tell us what we can do. So before we even get going, I would love to hear what sparked the idea of the Take Two Minutes.
 
Marc S Fussell (00:57.229)
It's interesting. It's actually my who now is my older son, but at the time he was much younger in 2015, my older son was in high school and he was struggling with what I call typical high school problems. And I say what I call because every everyone deals with things very differently. So when I heard of what was happening or what he was sad, depressed about in my mind, I was like, this is high school difficulties. And I decided to try to address it by something simple, which was sending him a message every day around noon. So in middle of his school day, letting him know he's loved, letting me know those people who care about him, just trying to lift his spirits. And that grew into me having a database of these positive messages. I'm a developer by heart. guess, you know, going back to my, my younger years, I was always a developer. So even when I was sending these messages to him, I was still in technology. And what I realized was every day when I wanted to send him a message, quite often I was in a meeting. I was doing something that was preoccupying my time. Further, most of my positivity was happening in the morning when I was either exercising or doing yoga or meditating. And around noon, as you may know, we have more stressful lives. And so I put together a little system that allowed me to write positive messages in the morning, put it into a document and the system would just take one out of the documents and send it to him every day. So yeah, they were still my messages. They were just being more automated sending to him. Well, that kind of snowballed into more people wanting to receive the messages. And I think at some point in time, I had 10, 15 people getting the messages and I didn't think anything else of it. thought this is kind of cool. People are reading my positive messages. So it's great. Well, one day I was in a coffee shop and someone behind me overheard me talking about it to the person who I knew is at the coffee shop. And they said, I get your messages too. And I had no idea that anyone else was getting them. And so I went and looked and there was about 300 people in the database who were receiving the messages. Yeah. So I was a little bit taken back and realized, I should probably do more with this because right now they're just my positive messages I've kind of made up. And not that I'm an expert, but I think they were good messages. So ultimately I reached out to my network of connections and learned that I had a connection with a doctor of psychology at Duke University. He was able to spend a lot of time on the phone with me, teaching me all about positive psychology, teaching me all about his studies. He had seven or eight years worth of studies he had done at that point around positive psychology and things that help people and really black and white data about how they help people. And so I started building out what's now Take Two Minutes. And that was probably in 2017, 2018, I started building Take Two Minutes.
 
Dr. Cam (03:33.034)
That is amazing and it's so great to have used technology for good. There's a lot of things we can do with good. So I love this and having those positive messages. We know the impact when you get them on a regular basis can rewire the brain. So you're helping your teenager rewire their brain to be more positive, which is phenomenal. And now we are talking about tools that parents can have. And this that itself is a great one. 
right, just sending those messages. But I have a lot of kids, especially once school starts, that really struggle to manage their emotions, that get very anxious about things, and parents want to help them and they don't know how. And so I'd love to provide some tools for them on what can they do when they see that their teen is struggling, what can they help them with.
 
Marc S Fussell (04:28.458)
Right. So I think there's a lot of answers to that question. And I'm going to start with, there is no one solution for everybody, right? And let's just start there. And I think that's an obvious statement, but not everyone recognizes that. The goal is to keep trying until you find something that works for the individual. Take two minutes is one of the many things you can try. Obviously, I'm gonna talk about take two minutes because it's my, as you said, my passion, what I know a lot about, but ultimately I know about positive psychology and there are a lot of tools out there and you have to find the one that works the best for your children. So what take two minutes can offer is a few things. We have a few different activities I'm gonna talk about that could help children.
 
Also, you mentioned the positive messages. We still have positive messages. They have grown. So we actually have an entire subset of positive messages now that are meant for middle school and high school kids. were created, the little subset, when I say little, it's 400 messages. They were created by teachers, school counselors, and also regular counselors and therapists that are really more targeted at that younger age. They're shorter messages. They're not quite as in depth with some of the messages. And they were written by people who work with kids to help kids. So there's a whole subset of positive messages just for younger audience, we'll say. On and above that, within Take Two Minutes, a parent can sign up for Take Two Minutes and buy a license for their child or children or entire family.
 
And a neat feature we have is the ability for the parent to see what activities the children are doing. So can actually get a report showing if they have one or more than one kid, each child and what things they're doing. And they can look at the report on a day basis or a week basis or whatever. many of the activities we have allows the recipient to check in, like how are you feeling right now? And so as if a child does check in their mood,
 
A parent can see their mood even different times throughout the day, how they're feeling if they have checked in multiple times. That's something that's really good. And from advice and input from therapists and counselors, the parents cannot read the child's personal data. So if the child is making journal entries, which is good, the parents don't have access to read those. The parents can go to the child and go, I'm seeing you're using these tools. I'm really happy. Anything you want to talk about, any of your entries you want to talk about, they can try to have that conversation but they don't have direct access to see the entries. It is still a private entry for the child. So going back to things that help, you mentioned rewiring the brain. think on and above just receiving positive messages, biggest, one of the largest things anyone can do to help rewire their brain is recognizing gratitude. It's really difficult to be in a negative spot and recognize gratitude at the same time. I don't know if it's even possible, honestly. So the recognition of gratitude or what is commonly called a gratitude journal is something that really anyone who's struggling should get in the habit of trying to do. Now within take two minutes, I'm going to ask, let you ask questions. But one more thing I want to add here with regards to gratitude journaling. I learned over the years that a lot of people struggle with gratitude journaling. If you're in a bad place, if you're depressed, if you're a child who's dealing with problems,
 
And a parent or anyone says, Hey, I want you to start gratitude journaling. Even if you want to, even if you sit down and try, you may sit there and think, I have nothing to be grateful for. You move on. And so what I have developed also, in addition to a gratitude journal is what I call the gratitude challenge. The gratitude challenge came from all this learning I've done about people who struggle with thinking of things they're grateful for. The gratitude challenge every day will send you a prompt of something for which you should be grateful. And it will ask you to write a statement on why you are grateful for that. What this does talking about rewiring the brain is it starts allowing someone to recognize things in their daily life for which they should be grateful. As they start recognizing those things, they will actually recognize more gratitude. After a short amount of time, I found in my studies, someone only needs about 10 to 14 days of gratitude challenges until they start just recognizing gratitude around them automatically.
 
So the gratitude challenge is a fun exercise that I encourage people who are struggling to take a chance with. And ideally, after a 14, 20 day gratitude challenge, you can then just smoothly transition into a gratitude journaling exercise.
 
Dr. Cam (08:58.422)
That's fantastic. are some of the things on there that just give us some examples of the things that you say we should be grateful for that kind of prompts the kids?
 
Marc S Fussell (09:09.193)
Right. So the one I use the same example quite often, and it is the sun provides heat and light to our planet. Think of a reason why you like the sun. And so it, it, that's, it's just a very simple topic. gives them one thing to think about and one thing to write a gratitude statement on. There's about 180 different prompts right now. And the goal of all those prompts is ideally not to trigger anyone, not to, try to touch on a topic that someone can't relate to, so they try to be all topics everybody can relate to. And of course, that's a tough thing to do. But yeah, right. But we've done our best to make sure that they all fit in that range. And so there's 180 of them. And ideally, if you do a gratitude challenge, system lets you, by default, it'll do seven days. But you can say, want to do a 20 day, a 15 day, whatever you want to do. And it'll continue it for that amount of time.
 
Dr. Cam (10:03.012)
I love that and I think when you've got something, an outside source that kind of plays into their technology, they might be more open to do it or you can do it as a family and just say, hey, let's figure out and if we all can come up with stuff, which is a great way to connect too. So we've got the gratitude, which yes, gratitude is a phenomenal way to rewire the brain. I always encourage parents to do this about their teens is find a daily, at least three things they're grateful for about their teen, which can start very difficult, but it changes that dynamic too. So I love the gratitude. What about when our teen is in a moment and they're stressing out and anxious and they want help, but they're also resistant to help. What are some very powerful tools that we can help our teens use in order to be able to get them through that?
 
Marc S Fussell (10:57.363)
Thankfully, because of a couple of larger companies, meditation is becoming a little more popular in today's age, or at least more people are aware of the idea of meditation. Take Two Minutes has hundreds and hundreds of meditations built into it, but specifically, I have a small library of meditations that are really focused on calming someone down from anxiety. And so, we haven't touched on this yet. Take Two Minutes is largely a text -based app. And so, it's an app. It has a website. The website this was called a mobile first design. So it's really designed for the mobile phone. You can do everything from the website. However, you can also do everything via just texting. a lot of, especially a lot of people love that because the fact that you always have your phone in your hand, you respond to text messages. And so you can, if you have a moment of anxiety, instead of trying to go to the website or find the app on your phone, just go to your text messages and text a message back to the service saying, I have anxiety it's gonna immediately send you back two exercises. It's immediately send you back a grounding exercise and a meditation that's focused on anxiety. You can use either of them, but it sends that back within seconds usually. And you can hit the meditation, sit down and follow along and ideally calm yourself down from that moment. The meditations that are in the anxiety focused meditations, again, there's about 20 and the whole purpose of those is to calm you down. And some of them are some breathing exercises. Some are just visualizations you follow along, but they really ideally help someone calm down from that panic attack or stressful moment.
 
Dr. Cam (12:32.416)
Yeah, and I think when you've got that presented to you, because a lot of times when parents present it, it just adds to the anxiety because kids feel a little pressured going, okay, mom's telling me that I need to breathe and I'm not feeling like breathing and now I feel pressured to breathe because mom wants me to and it's like, it kind of builds it up. So having something that generates it for you through their type of communication is really nice and having that. we've got gratitude. We do, we've got the grounding exercise, right? And is that the five, four, three, two.
 
Marc S Fussell (13:00.891)
Yes, yes. It is, it's the one, five things you see around you, four things you, I think here, three things you smell, yeah. I think it's a great exercise. And I'm sure you know this, you've probably talked about it, it brings someone into the present, it brings someone into their surroundings and makes you focus on things around you. And again, Dr. Cam, I'm sure you know this, but anxiety is worrying about the future. So if you're worried about something upcoming or possibilities of something, if you can bring yourself into your surroundings and where you're at right now, that helps alleviate that anxiety.
 
Dr. Cam (13:37.312)
It really does and it gets you out of the head, out of your head. always liken it to, you you're riding your bike and a twig gets in there and you just go, boom, it just stops the wheels, right? It's kind of like that where it just stops that hamster wheel in your brain. The grounding exercise I use with my own daughter quite a lot to the point now where she just looks at me and she goes, okay, mom, let's start, you know, when she's starting to feel, because by the time you're done with it, you have stopped it enough to be able to regain even if you're still stressed out, you at least aren't stuck in that like hyperventilation, Like freaking out thing. So doing that, a lot of kids resist breathing. How do we get our kids on board? Because breathing is probably the number one best way to calm ourselves down. But it gets a lot of eye rolls. People are like, my God, breathing.
 
So how do we talk about breathing to our teens in a way that doesn't sound all woo woo and they can buy into it?
 
Marc S Fussell (14:42.724)
So before we get to breathing back to the grounding exercise, I want to add that a lot of people to it, to make this exercise more impactful for anybody. have to. So what I found is a few of the numbers, especially when you start talking about things you smell and things you hear, you have to really focus on those. And those are the key ones, right? It's really easy. It's easy to look around and go, I see a clock, I see a speaker, I see a picture, I see, and that's almost topical, right? It's so easy to see things quickly. 
I ideally am for most people at least. hearing, hearing is one of those things where depending on where you're at, you may have to focus more, which is good. The point of that exercise is to focus a little bit because that is what's going to bring yourself into the present moment. So hearing or listening, you may have to start really trying to hone in on what you hear. And maybe it's a car out in the distance or a train or wrestling of Lee's, that
Focus is what helps that exercise be impactful. If you make it very topical and just make it very, hear this, I hear that. Well then move on to smell because smells even more difficult quite often, right?
 
Dr. Cam (15:44.35)
can ever get smell. It's two things you smell. Let's go, it's five things you see, four things you can feel like against your body, not emotions. Three things you hear, two things you can smell and one thing you taste. So you're going through all the different senses. And when we get to smell, I struggle to smell more than one thing. Like that's a tough thing for us to do, I think.
 
Marc S Fussell (15:51.685)
But the beauty of that is if you do try hard, that is what's helping that exercise work for you. Because if you just pass it up, that's not going to be as impactful as really trying. And the feel one is one I like because you got to really start thinking about sitting in a seat. I feel my sit bone against the seat. I feel the arm against my elbow over here. Right. So you got to kind of focus on those things. And that focus is what makes that really, really impactful. So I wanted to touch on that real quickly before we got to breathing. But for breathing, there's a couple of things on breathing also.
 
In addition to the meditations that are focused on helping with anxiety, we have another library of breathing exercises. So there are many breathing techniques, as you are probably aware. There's not just a breathing technique. So a couple of things on breathing is I recommend people to try, you know, quite a few of them out of the library. think my breathing exercise library has 18 different breathing exercises. So keep trying different ones until you find one you like. Once you find one you like, you can add it to your library so you can get back to it quickly so you can reuse it. However, with breathing, the goal is to recognize your breath. If you calm down from it, if you're calming down from anxiety, it's not so much just your awareness, yeah, I'm breathing. It's deep, purposeful breaths and purposeful exhales. I find for me, what works the best is inhaling through the nose, exhaling through the mouth. Everyone's a little bit different. Every breathe exercise is a little bit different, but you make very purposeful inhales that are really deep and even audible if need be. then you can make, you know, let out a big as you're exhaling and repeat that. Then focus on feeling again feet. We're talking about feels, right? So feeling the air go into your nostrils, feeling the air go down, feeling your stomach expand on the breath. So feeling those things that again brings you back into the present moment because you're really focusing on something that's happening right now and around you.
 
Dr. Cam (18:01.544)
Yeah, I think the key with this and across all of these is finding that technique that gets you out of your head and into just the tangibles and the truth, right? Because a lot of where anxiety comes from, it's like the story we're building and building and building, and there's rarely any truth to it. You know, it's kind of this buildup thing. And so now we're getting to something really true and real and here, which all of those things kind of ground us. 
 
I like that with an app you can just get it, right? So you don't have to remember it. Because I think that's one of the challenges too. And if you don't have the app, one of the things to remember is these are things you have to practice when you're calm because your brain is not going to remember what to do when you're in fight or flight. It's already gone, right? So this is about finding that exercise and having it become automated beforehand. And even if you have the app, having that turning to the app has to be automated because you're not going to think of that either, right? Do you find that as a challenge or what are your recommendations for that?
 
Marc S Fussell (19:09.4)
I think what you said is spot on because you do want to get accustomed to some of those exercises and not just try them when you're in that fight or flight or really panic mode. Cause it's not going to be as obvious to you at that point. So you have to almost play with the app some first. So you're familiar with how to get to things. And again, I've tried to make it really, really easy. You you mentioned the word app since it is a mobile designed website or it's called a progressive web app. You can put a link right on your note desktop or home screen of your phone. It's really easy to do. You can put a link right there so you can get to it almost immediately. also, again, as I mentioned, we've made it where it's text friendly also, so you can text messages to it get responses. So the goal is to make it as easily accessible as possible. But with that said, some practice ahead of time or playing ahead of time so you become familiar with it and are aware it's there as a tool for you helps you when you do need it.
 
Dr. Cam (20:01.844)
Yeah, and I think, and I'm thinking in my head too, because a lot of times the kids that I talk to when they're going through anxiety don't actually have access to their phone because the phone has been removed from them because, and that's some of the reason why they are experiencing anxiety is because the phone has been taken and that's kind of their lifeline. So I think it's really important that if you are removing the phone to consider that, that that might be a lifeline. So you need to first decide what that is. And if you are, to have some of these other tools in place and taught and prepared and ready for them if they need to figure it out and access themselves, correct?
 
Marc S Fussell (20:39.895)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's an interesting, almost like rabbit hole we could talk about. I don't want to talk about it too much, but you know, removing the phone, I get why it's done. don't want, we, in our minds, especially older generations look at the devices as a crutch, right? We didn't have them when we were kids, why they needed it. But these days they're kind of like just a part of life. So removing them, even though it may seem obvious to us that we, cause we didn't need them as a kid a lot of children rely upon those things. That is, like you said, their lifeline. It's almost like their security blanket sometimes. It's just what they're accustomed to having. so monitoring what they're doing on them is definitely important, right? You don't want them doing anything bad or anything they shouldn't be doing. And I'm not going to tell anyone, don't remove their children's phones. Obviously it's your child, do what you want to do. But I think that definitely can add some anxiety because in their minds, it's something they're just accustomed to having quite often.
 
Dr. Cam (21:33.548)
Yeah. And I think that it is, it's a decision that if that is what you're going to do, that's fine and that's your decision, but making sure that you're replacing that with something else because we tend to just take it and not replace it with anything. And so that leaves your child just struggling, right? Rather than saying, okay, I know this is a security blanket and what do you use it for? Let's find something else. That's why too, we want to make sure we've got a lot of these tools and we've been walking through. And you said at the beginning, and I want to reiterate this, this is about finding what works for your team. So you may go through a lot of different things and your team is just going to be like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. That is fine. Keep finding. Don't give up or something. Right? So we've got, and you're right, breathing, there's a ton of different things.
 
I like the grounding exercise just because it feels more like a game a little bit than Zen meditations, gratitude. What are we missing?
 
Marc S Fussell (22:39.156)
Again, just when you say gratitude, don't forget the gratitude challenge. That's huge. Now earlier, though, you mentioned you touched on with your child. Sometimes you think of three, three things, three good things you liked. So the three good things exercise is an actual exercise in positive psychology that is huge. And some people don't fully understand how it's supposed to work. So I'm to touch on that real quickly. Gratitude journaling. Most of the time, I mean, the time what I've heard time and time again is best in the early day hours. So sometime in the morning, wake up, try to write a gratitude statement, write two if you can. That is different from three good things. Three good things ideally is an exercise that is supposed to be done in the evening, so prior to bed. And you're supposed to reflect on the day and think of three good things that happened that day to you. The purpose of this is it puts your mind into a positive state prior to going to bed many people, even children, us, so many people have stressful days, right? And at the end of the day, sometimes you're exhausted. Maybe it was a bad day. Maybe you had problems. and so you're going to bed quite often, maybe in a negative mood, even though you don't recognize this negative mood, doing three good things in the evening makes you reflect on the day and makes you think about good things that happen. And sometimes it's a struggle. Some days you're like, I can't think of anything, but it's little things, right?
 
someone held the door for you. That was very nice of them. Someone said, thank you. didn't know where you talk to. Think of little things. It doesn't have to be a monumental change, but three good things. Go to sleep. Your subconscious then works on that positivity. And this is what's creating new routes in your head, neural pathways for positivity. You wake up with a little bit more positivity. The studies have shown, and there's been a lot of studies on three good things, that if you do that for just
 
15 days only 15 days It will have a lasting effect on your mental well -being for four months meaning that those 15 days of Thinking of three good things that happened to you prior to going to bed Because of again your subconscious and how it uses that information you will have More positivity in your life for the next up to the next four months
 
Dr. Cam (24:57.824)
This is such an amazing thing to do as a family again, right? If you're to that point, even around dinner table, it's like, are three things that were great today? Share them with us. Because when we, the other thing is when we either write them down or vocalize it, it's much more prominent than if we just think it, right? So putting that out there makes it a lot more powerful. And I also want to highlight what you said too, that we often think it has to be this big major thing, right?
 
And it can be the smallest thing. One of the things I do with teens is I say, just look around the room and pick one thing, just any random thing there, and tell me what are you grateful for about that? Just that, that one thing. So it can be so completely simple. The whole point is it's making your brain think of the positive and not stuck in that negative. Why, and I know positive psychology gets into this a lot, why are we kind of geared towards going to the negative. Why is that so easy to do and the positive we have to be so intentional about?
 
Marc S Fussell (26:03.605)
There's a lot of discussion around that. And I think it falls back to in our, you know, centuries and centuries ago, we had to be aware of the negatives because there could be a bear after us or a saber tooth tiger. had to be aware of our surroundings because we needed to protect ourselves. We primarily live in a day and age now where generally we're pretty protected. You know, you're in a house, you have a lot of securities, but that You know, it goes, it's very similar to the reason why we are all predisposition to really want sugar, want salt and what fat, right? It's things to keep our survival going. and that negativity is things to keep our survival going. However, everything plays on that, you know, news plays on that negativity to, to incite you, to get you to watch more news or be concerned. Social media is really bad about trying to show you the negatives to get you engaged with the conversation. I think, at one point in time, I read a whole article about Facebook. use their algorithms, took anything negative and put it up top to hopefully engage people to try to respond more. then you're just being negativities being dumped on you and you're playing up on that. And it makes you more negative. Barbara Fredrickson said the negativity screams at us, whereas the positivity only whispers. And I think I probably didn't get that quote exactly right. But the premise is accurate that you have to look for the positivity sometimes. But what happens is, and you talked about changing again, your brains pathways, it's really it's called priming. So once you get accustomed to recognizing positive things, recognizing gratitude, once you start doing it, once you get in the habit of doing it, your brain will just automatically start doing it more and more. And the beauty of it is, and I tell people this all the time, we're not looking for fake positivity, we're not looking for fake happiness, we're not trying to say, you're always happy. The goal is that life's going to have ebbs and flows. Once you have a good amount of gratitude and you recognize gratitude around you and you're recognizing positivity through positive psychology. When bad things happen, you're able to rebound more quickly because bad things are still going to happen. You're going to have problems in life. You're going to have unfortunate deaths. You're going to have grievance. You're going to have problems in life all the time. The idea behind positive psychology, the idea behind recognizing positivity is being able to rebound from those things often or more quickly. So I know myself, I have Yeah, as we all do, I don't want this isn't a, you feel sorry for marketing, but I have a lot going on, right? I'm a CIO. I take care of, take two minutes. have kids. have, you know, helping people and every day there are challenges and there are times where there's grievances. I can usually, since I've been practicing positive psychology for years now, I can recognize when I'm in a bad state, I can recognize when I'm in a negative state, right? And when I recognize that because I'm able to recognize it doesn't mean I'm able to instantly fix it. can't just flip a switch and go, I'm happy again. But because I recognize it, I do a better job, I believe, of not reflecting that negativity on other people. I do a better job of trying to maybe avoid people who I care about just so I don't be more negative around them until I'm able to get over it. And I can use things I know to get myself into a better positive state in a shorter amount of time. you know, everyone's going be different with what that timeframe is. If it's a death in the family, it might take you weeks to get over and that's okay. Nothing's wrong with that. But the goal of a positive psychology is you do recognize it and you're able to dig yourself out of the hole.
 
Dr. Cam (29:25.44)
I’m glad you brought that up because I think there is this false assumption or belief about positive psychology that it's just everything's shiny and pretty and I'm going to just ignore reality. But what I see a lot and again, I see this with my teens a lot is that we create a reality that's far more negative and they have these they go to the end create stories that are super, super negative and see that as the reality.
 
And so I'll make them do like, okay, come up with a opposing story that is so beyond crazy positive. That's just as true. That feels really weird to you and uncomfortable, but it is just as true as this really, really negative one. Let's get somewhere in the middle so that we're, because how our brain thinks is how we interact with the world. So we can create really negative interactions and the same person can experience the exact same thing and not have the negative impact. So I think it's really important that this is, and like you said, and I just want to expand on that because I think that is a very big misconception people have. I also want to share that yesterday was the exact day that I had where I had to tell my daughter, she came down and I said, I'm not in a good mood today, just to let you know.
 
Marc S Fussell (30:40.542)
it is.
 
Dr. Cam (30:50.964)
And she sends me a text later and she goes, mom, have to tell you this, but I didn't want to tell you in the morning because she told me you were in a bad mood. But I was just like, I'm just going let you know now. I'm not in a good place. I'm trying. I'm going to get out of it. But right now I'm just not there. And it helped because now we weren't triggering one another.
 
Marc S Fussell (31:11.325)
Right. Yeah. And that's what you said. We're all going to have bad days. No matter what you do, there's going to be bad days. And you just got to learn that, recognize that. It's not all rainbows and butterflies, right? Life has problems.
 
Dr. Cam (31:15.356)
Yeah, absolutely. I love all of these. think this is about, and we'll put the link and all the information about the app in there, because I think that is a great tool, especially if you have a teen and if you do have a teen that is resistant to your suggestions and advice, you are not alone. In fact, you probably have more people that are like that than have kids that will listen. But if you have that, this is a great tool. Or finding somebody else that can teach them those, Not getting upset that they won't listen to you, but finding a way for them to access those tools is great.
 
Marc S Fussell (32:01.686)
Yes, and I think we set up a coupon code for you as well that's in your listeners can use Correct. Yep
 
Dr. Cam (32:06.758)
You did. It's just Dr. Cam. So put in Dr. Cam and you can get a discount. That's fantastic. Thank you for doing that. I love that. So what is one thing you want people to walk away with from this episode?
 
Marc S Fussell (32:19.709)
I think it's patience and kindness. think it's important for people, especially parents. You were kids once too. I was a kid once too. Kids can be frustrating. I was probably challenging when I was a child. I think just have some patience, have kindness, show love always, and that will go a long way to making them feel confident with talking to you. think love is an important part of it as well, letting them know that they are loved, that you care about them if they're going through a difficult time trying to help them in a loving way is I think they're in for
 
Dr. Cam (32:52.832)
That is so key. It's easy to love them when they're being compliant and good. It is very difficult sometimes to not that we don't love them, but to show that love when they're being difficult and that's when they need us the most. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us. I really, really appreciate it.
 
Marc S Fussell (33:01.027)
That was a great conversation. I appreciate being here. Thank you for having me again.
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast offers expert advice, real-world insights, and practical parenting strategies to help you navigate the challenges of raising teens. Dr. Cam, an adolescent psychologist, helps parents build strong relationships with their teens while supporting their emotional growth. Each episode provides actionable tips and tools to improve communication, handle teen behavior, and thrive together as a family. #ParentingTeens #MentalHealth #Teens #PositivePsychology #TakeTwoMinutes #DrCamCaswell

Prevent Teen Drinking and Impaired Driving: Expert Tips from MADD CEO to Keep Your Teen Safe

Dr. Cam Caswell sits down with Stacey D. Stewart, CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), to discuss the critical issue of underage drinking and impaired driving. Stacey highlights the ongoing dangers of these issues and the devastating impact they can have on families. She emphasizes that parents play a key role in prevention through open, ongoing conversations with their teens. Stacey encourages parents to provide resources and information to help their children make informed decisions and understand the consequences of alcohol and substance use. Modeling responsible behavior and seeking help if a child struggles with substance use is also key.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
The lasting dangers of underage drinking and impaired driving, and how parents can help prevent them.
Why ongoing, open communication with teens is crucial for prevention.
Practical resources and tips for parents to help their teens make informed choices about alcohol and substance use.
How parents can model responsible behavior to reinforce the importance of safe choices.
The importance of addressing mental health concerns and seeking help when necessary.
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Underage drinking and impaired driving remain serious issues with severe consequences.
Parents can prevent these dangers by maintaining open communication with their teens and providing educational resources.
Modeling responsible behavior is essential for guiding teens toward making better decisions.
Early conversations about alcohol and substance use should begin as early as elementary school.
If a teen is struggling with substance use, parents should seek support and resources immediately.
 
ENJOYING THE SHOW?
Don’t keep it to yourself! Share this episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create more episodes packed with practical tips to help you and your family thrive!
🔔 Be sure to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-filled episode!
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
MADD's digital Power of Parents handbook
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and the Importance of Prevention
03:39 The Disconnect Between Knowledge and Action
06:34 Starting the Conversation Early
11:31 Continuing the Conversation and Reinforcing the Dangers
18:39 Creating a Plan for Safe Transportation
26:27 Modeling Responsible Behavior and Addressing Mental Health
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Stacey D. Stewart
Website: MADD Website
Instagram: @MADDNational
Facebook: MADD Official Facebook
LinkedIn: Stacey D. Stewart LinkedIn
X (Twitter): @MADDOnline
YouTube: MADD YouTube Channel
TikTok: @MADDNational
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT  
Dr. Cam (00:01.026)
The thought of your teen making a life -altering mistake because of alcohol is terrifying. We know that underage drinking can lead to devastating consequences, from impaired driving accidents to the dangerous combination of alcohol with other drugs. But here's the thing, these tragedies are entirely preventable. To help us navigate these tough topics, I am joined by Stacey D. Stewart, CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving or MADD. Stacey is going to share how we as parents can address these fears take action and keep our teens safe from the dangers of drinking and driving. Stacey, welcome to the show.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (00:37.837)
Thank for having me.
 
Dr. Cam (00:39.182)
Absolutely, Kaso. I always love starting with a backstory. So what inspired you to get involved with MAD?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (00:47.544)
You know, my whole career has kind of been defined by leading and working in organizations that are doing good in society and doing good for others. It's my career has gone everywhere from addressing affordable housing and homelessness to looking at the issues of public education to public health and maternal and infant health and this opportunity came up to come to MAD and I just thought it was an amazing opportunity. The organization has, you know, an incredible legacy, has done really phenomenal things and is on a journey to continue to address the issue of Indian Peer Driving. And I just jumped on the opportunity to come once it came my way and I've been excited to be a part of the organization ever since.
 
Dr. Cam (01:35.23)
I love that. Thank you for everything you're doing. That's amazing. Making some serious change in the world. That's incredible. Tell me a little bit about what is the goal of MAD right now? Like what are your main things that you're trying to accomplish?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (01:51.034)
So the main goal is to end impaired driving, meaning ending drunk and drug driving. And unfortunately for a lot of people, I think maybe because of some of the success that Matt has had over almost 45 years, a lot of people think that that issue has gone away or we've dealt with it. Some people say, well, we have ride share, we have Uber and ride share alternatives. So why would anyone get behind a wheel and drive? And unfortunately it still happens. In fact, based on the latest statistics,
 
Over 13 ,000 people died as a result of impaired driving crashes. And about every, almost every 90 seconds, someone is either being injured or killed in an impaired driving crash. And so we still have a major issue for, in this country. And in fact, even though we have seen a 50 % decline in fatalities from the beginning of MADS getting started until just before the...
 
Stacey D. Stewart (02:49.69)
pandemic, during the pandemic, we saw an upswing. So from 2019 to 2022, we saw an increase in fatalities of over 30%. So we began going in the wrong direction. And that's why, Mad, we're, you know, very, very focused on doubling down to make sure that we build awareness around the dangers of, of drinking and, using substances behind the wheel. We also are making sure that young people understand the dangers of underage drinking because we know that underage drinking and substance use can lead to a greater chance of becoming involved in an impaired driving crash. So these are just really important issues that we have to continue to focus on and we can't let up the focus because, you know, frankly, if we do, more people die or get injured and none of us wants that.
 
Dr. Cam (03:39.638)
Yeah, I think as parents, we're very well aware of this, right? And when our kids are going out and they're even before they're driving and their friends are driving, we're already terrified enough, right? I think our kids also know, but there's a disconnect between what they know and what they do. And there's also a disconnect of what we know and what our kids will hear from us, right? And what they believe from us.
 
So I think that's the biggest thing as parents that we're worried about is how do we convey the severity of it without terrifying them, but also how do we do it in a way where we're teaching them to make good decisions, even when there's peer pressure and they don't want to be the weird person that says, I'm not going to take the ride or no, I'm not drinking. I throw a lot at you because there's a lot.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (04:31.246)
Right. No, that's it. Yeah, no, no, no. It's but you're you're asking all the right questions and touching all the right issues. And I think, you know, Ed Madd, one of the things that we do is provide a lot of information and resources to parents so that parents know how to talk to their kids around the dangers of underage drinking and substance use and then what that can mean in terms of becoming involved in an impaired driving crash. I think it's really important to level set, you know, about There are about 4 ,300 deaths attributed each year to underage drinking in this country. And when you look at, in fact, based on data as of 2021, about 27 % of drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 were killed in traffic crashes and had alcohol present in their system. And so it's really important to understand that these are really serious issues and that if we don't talk to our kids, as soon as we're ready to have that conversation and they're ready to have the conversation, which can be as early as even elementary school, middle school, but certainly by high school, we could be doing our kids a disservice because if they're not engaged in a very positive conversation with their parents, who we know parents are the most influential adults in a kid's life, they may being influenced by some of the wrong things to your point around peer pressure becomes very intense the older that young people get certainly through high school, middle school and high school and into college. so creating those healthy habits is something that's really important. And that's why we created the Power Parents Handbook which is available at mad .org our website. It's available to give parents those tools that they need to know how to talk to kids in healthy and positive ways so that kids understand how to make good decisions and how to make sure that they stay as safe as possible and keep others safe as well.
 
Dr. Cam (06:34.502)
Yeah, I looked through that. It's beautifully done too. It's really, really cool resource. So I will put the link there and I encourage parents to look at that. Let's pull out a few things. Let's say we've got a tween now, right? So they're not driving yet. Hopefully, well, chances are now they might be starting to be introduced to alcohol. How do we start that conversation at that age? What are some things parents can say or do to really build so that we can build upon that. I'll take it older.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (07:06.426)
So I think one of the things that the Hamburg tribes have point out is that it's not even what we say, it's also how we say it. So there are certain kinds of parenting styles and approaches that tend to get young people listening and hearing the message that we have to convey, right? You know, some parents, and this is no judgment on parents at all, because we're all just human beings and we're all just trying to do our best, right?
But sometimes that more authoritarian style of like, do what I say and sort of pound the message into the kid and hope they, you know, just kind of seeps into their brain or gets pounded into the brain may work for some kids, but for a lot of kids, it's not proven to be always effective. Or the kind of laissez faire, you know, they'll get it. it'll be fine. And trying to taking it for granted that things will just be okay and I don't really need to be proactive is also probably not the right approach. So the right approach is, you know, I mean, think every parent kind of knows when their kid might be coming into situations where they might be introduced to alcohol or substances. Certainly by middle school and high school, it's really important to kind of sit down with your kids and with a very positive approach, you know, really in a way that's assuming that you trust your young people to make good judgments. Are you know, smart, are growing, you know, young people and want to be independent at the same time. It's really important for parents to understand there is a role for you to be able to say, to help young people understand that substances and alcohol is a substance can be dangerous and to explain how those things can be dangerous, how those things can impair one's judgment, how they can impair your response time and how It's okay when a lot of other kids are doing certain activities. It's really okay to make a choice to say not or to call for help or to reach out for help when you feel like you're in a situation where you may not be able to, you know, get home safely or, or you may be forced to make a decision that you don't want to. It's keeping the communication lines open, making sure that kids and young people know it's really okay to come to the parent, even if you think you've made a mistake.
 
Even if you think that you're doing something that could be dangerous down the road never hesitating to bring that forward so making sure that those lines of communication are always open I always am amazed at how parents sometimes Will make the decision well Mike I have a bunch of kids over I'm okay if they all drink when I'm here because I'm looking out over them But I just don't want kids going out and drinking well if kids are at your house, then someone else's kid is out drinking at your house. And, you know, the issue for a lot of young people is once they leave the house and they're involved, engaged in some behavior that could be very dangerous for them, you know, how do we make sure that they get home safely? And even though we know that kids are not supposed to be drinking and using substances under the age of 21, they still do. And it still happens It's our responsibility as parents to make sure that not only our kids, but other people's kids are safe too. And we have that responsibility to ourselves and to others.
 
Dr. Cam (10:33.024)
That is so true and it's such a good point that we're like, well, we're keeping them safe, but you're right. I'm not trusting somebody else to keep my kids safe, so I don't want, they don't need to trust me either. And I think it sends a mixed message too going, it's okay to drink now, but not here. And so that's confusing. let's say we've got, and I see this a lot in my practice. We've got kids that are using substances, they're either drinking or they're smoking. They are doing their very best to hide it from their parents because they know their parents don't want them to and their parents have told them not to do it, but it doesn't change them. It doesn't make them not do it, right? In fact, it just makes them very sneaky about doing it. And so then they make choices. So what do we do if we're in this situation and we find out that our child has been hiding that they've been drinking or doing substances? How do we respond to that when they clearly don't have trust in us enough to tell us?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (11:31.908)
Yeah, well, you know, those are tough and those happen all the time. And those are situations that so many of us have found ourselves in where we have to confront a young person about their behavior. you know, I think this is one of the things that's really important is this conversation isn't just a one time thing. It's something that should be done, you know, continuously and continuously using opportunities to engage in those conversations. You know, sometimes it's helpful. you know, if you are aware that your young person might be using substances or may be involved in some behavior, it's just to go back to those reminders of what we talked about and how this could be dangerous and just continuing to reinforce those messages. Continuing to reinforce that this isn't about punishment necessarily, although sometimes that may be appropriate given the situation and that's for every parent to decide how they want to do that.
 
But I do think it's really important to make sure that young people don't feel like there's some sort of punitive consequence necessarily if they just have made a mistake. However, at the same time, they do need to understand that even one mistake can lead to a life altering consequence, either for them or for someone else. So there's a real balance between, look, I understand you may make a mistake here, something may have happened, but please bring them back to
 
Remember what your options are remember that you don't have to do this remember that and this is another important point is that I think it's really important to understand that some kids are using substances or alcohol because of You know peer pressure things like that. Some kids are really dealing with Actual legitimate mental health issues and a lot of young people are looking for ways to cope with those things and I think it's really important to remind parents that If your kid is involved in using substance for whatever reason, make sure that you're getting them other kinds of help that they may need. You know, that it's really okay to go to a therapist to talk things out or to have a coach. You know, we just introduced a program called Mad Sports because not only are parents really influential in young people's lives, but there are other adults that really young people look up to. And it may be engaging those other adults in that kid's life who you know will be influential, a teacher, a principal you know, someone that a young person, you know, respects and really engages them and asks them for help. Some parents maybe feel uncomfortable asking for help or asking for assistance, but as your kid gets older, your young person gets older, you know, they are looking at other adults in their life. They are looking, they do have mentors. They are other people that they really look up to. And it's really important. It's, you know, there's this phrase, it takes a village. It's really important to engage all those trusted, you know, could be a member of the clergy, you know, it just depends could be an older family member even, that an aunt or an uncle or a cousin who can sit them down and talk to them and get to them in ways that maybe as a parent you can't. And that's really okay. Use all your resources. those would be just some of the things. But I do think continuing the conversation over time and bringing them back to remember some of these situations, making sure you're meeting your young person where they are, right, is really important.
Dr. Cam (14:48.792)
That is key. And while you're talking, I'm kind of like developing this plan or idea in my head that I want to run by you to see if this would work. Cause I want to give parents something really tangible here. So from what I'm hearing, if we're catching and we find out our kids are drinking, probably the not great way to address it is to like get harder, batten down the hatches restrict them from everything and just really get into that authoritarian, you can't do this mode. Because when we do this, we're not addressing why they're doing it and we're disconnecting from them even more, which means our influence is deteriorating even more. Instead, what I'm hearing is, let's go find somebody that they already trust, a coach, a teacher, a mentor, and talk to them and say, hey, I've heard this, is there any, you know, can you have a conversation with them? Then in the meantime, we step back and we start building our connection with them rather than breaking it more. I think with fear, we get this idea that we've got to do something right now. But when we get in that mindset, we make it worse. Do you agree with that?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (15:55.77)
I would definitely say even if you find other adults, again, our research shows that it's still parents who are the most influential. So it is a both and to your point. I think it's the parents really sitting down with kids and trying to, you know, build on that ability to have that open conversation. You know, some parents have different ways of doing it. Some parents talk about the, you know, the challenges they've had in life and how they you know, have confronted some of same things and how they had to deal with it or how they reached out. And to your point, and the point we're just talking about, and finding potentially other adults who can help reinforce those messages, but having that positive, open conversation that says, look, even if you're dealing with some things, there's nothing that's ever too big that you can't come to me, you can't come to somebody else, and we can get you the help you need. And just reminding people, reminding young people the consequences of all of their actions and decisions, you know. We've talked to so many young people who, you know, have regretted if they've been involved with a crash or they've injured someone or even killed someone. And they have to live with the pain of that over many, many years, not to mention the pain that that family has lost a loved one or had some loved one be injured or have some life altering, you know, outcome. What they're having to deal with, which is devastating. And so, you know, I think, again, we can't take it for granted. The other thing I would say just quickly is that I think a lot of young people do not understand, while MAD started as really primarily focused on alcohol, what we're seeing is a growing trend around what's called poly use, the combination of alcohol and substances. So with legalization of cannabis and commercialization of marijuana, It's really, really important. There are a lot of young people based on some of the surveys we've done who really take it for granted that you can be high in drive and it's okay. Some young people actually believe it helps you drive, that it makes you a better driver. And that just simply isn't true. If you're impaired in any way, whether it's due to alcohol, substances, or could even be prescription drugs, you have to be very careful about it. If you're impaired in any way, it really is important that you step back and, make sure that young people understand that if they're impaired, they should not be driving, that it's okay to leave the car where it is, take an Uber, call me, call a friend, but don't decide to do something that could result in something that's very serious.
 
Dr. Cam (18:39.31)
Stacey, what you were just saying too, I wanna highlight, because I think this is really important, is that you're finding a plan ahead of time. Because if we're expecting our teen to be in a state and then think logically about what the next safe thing to do and how to get out of that situation, they're not going to. So if you've got a plan ahead of time, rather than saying, don't do it, we're gonna say, we don't want you to do it. We're gonna be clear about that. But if you find yourself in a situation, even if you're not drinking, but your friend is, What can you do in that situation? Let's get the plan in place and let's talk about that plan over and over so it becomes really easy because our goal is to keep them safe, right? What do you think is a good plan to do set up with our team?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (19:24.558)
Obviously if your teen is going out to a party or going to friend's house, and if you can afford it and if it's available to you, taking rideshare to the destination and making a plan to, to take it back is, is always a good idea. And, know, if you feel like your teen, you know, might find themselves in situation where you think they'll be okay, but you're not quite sure, have a conversation and say, look, Just to be extra safe, why don't we go ahead and make a plan in advance? Or as a parent or adult, let me take you and pick you up now. lot of teens don't want that. They don't want their parents around anything. So ride share can be, Or make a plan to have the older sister or brother or someone who they are not uncomfortable with make that plan. think.
 
Dr. Cam (20:05.742)
I'm gonna come in and get you.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (20:20.494)
Sometimes coordinating with other parents on how maybe a group of them will make transportation plans is always really helpful. know, some teens may feel like this is a little intrusive, but I do think it's going to this place of reminding your kids, look, I care about you and I love you. And I just want to make sure you're safe. And I want to make sure that other people are safe. You know, I have had many of those conversations with my own children who are now 19 and 21. And so I've been through many years of dealing with some of these situations. And, you know, I think what I what our power parents information tries to give you is just that it's really important to make sure that you are responding to what your kids are feeling that you're listening to what your kids are experiencing. And maybe your kids will have a plan that they would like to offer of how they plan to get around safely. That's always a really good option. So that you're building their confidence and their ability to use good judgment to your point. Once they're impaired, it's really hard to make good judgments. That's for anybody, especially true for a young person. So the best thing is to not leave it to a debate or a default or an unknown. Go ahead and make a plan in advance. We have a partnership with Uber and Anheuser -Busch called Decide to Ride. It's really geared for more adults, but the theory is still the same if you're going to a football game, make a decision on how you're gonna get there and get home safely so that you're not putting yourself at risk or others. And the same is true, you know, as your kids start to, you know, go through teen years and are becoming more active socially and certainly into college as well.
 
Dr. Cam (22:06.05)
There's two points that came to mind while you were talking and this is so helpful just to hear it from somebody that's like knows all the data and knows all the facts, right? But I think the one thing is some parents will say, well, if I say, hey, here's what we're gonna do when you're drinking, I'm condoning drinking. What I've seen is that when we actually are saying that, our kids are less likely to drink because we've taken all the fun out of the sneaking behind. Teens have actually told me this.
 
It's like when my parents understand and help me through it, it's no longer that desire. It's not as fun to do. And the other one is to have them involved in the decision and the plan, because if we just dictate a plan and it doesn't address their needs, like I'm gonna be embarrassed if I do that or they're not gonna do it. But if we involve them and we address what they need, it's much more likely that they're gonna follow through.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (23:01.188)
think parents to again, I want to underscore this point because there was a recent survey that just came out showing that there is a decline in alcohol use among young people. But in some ways, it's being replaced by other things again, being replaced by substances being replaced by social media and other kinds of things that are the young people are using to deal with some of the normal stresses, anxieties, worries, fears they have in life, right. And again, I think it goes back to that point of you know, they, you know, our young people are dealing with a lot, you know, even through the pandemic, think, we kind of take it for granted the kind of, emotional and mental impact that that had on everybody, but especially on young people. And a lot of young people are still dealing with the aftermath of that. It's, it's not, it's a, it's, these are very serious issues. So I think we have to just remind, ourselves that our kids are still pretty delicate. you know, in terms of their physical development, their emotional, mental, social, emotional development, all of that is very, you know, still at a very delicate stage if they're in middle school, high school, and especially. And so it's really important to be mindful of that. The last thing I just want to say about this too is that, and a lot of parents sometimes don't want to hear this, but I think it's important to say that because parents are so influential, again, it goes back to this point of it's sometimes this,
 
Don't listen to my words, just watch what I do. And we are sometimes modeling the behavior that our kids pick up on. I was just recently with a friend of mine and stayed at our house for a few days. And she said, you know, I really regret the amount of social activity and coming home after work and the drinks and the wine and all of those things almost on a regular basis. What messages that was sending my own children. about the use of alcohol in the house. And I think we have to just be mindful. Of course, at MAD, we're never telling people not to enjoy yourself. And as an adult, you make decisions that you wanna make and you should. At the same time as parents, we have another role, which is that we influence our kids. And if you want your kids to be influenced in the best and most positive ways, not just don't be mindful just of what you say, but what you do think that becomes a very powerful message as parents of how we communicate and help our kids to be as healthy and as strong and able to make the best decisions possible as they grow older into adulthood.
 
Dr. Cam (25:42.966)
Yeah, that's incredibly powerful. I think when you're talking about how teens use substances a lot of times to deal with their mental health issues, right, to feel better, do adults. So when we're showing our kids that we turn to substances and alcohol to make us feel better, we're showing them that that's how they make themselves feel better. And I think we don't see ourselves when we do this as innately bad because we're drinking.
 
So we need to avoid seeing our kids as being bad for drinking and rather going, why are they turning towards to this as a solution? And how do we together find a more healthy, safer solution?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (26:27.876)
Right. And what's the balance, right? I mean, no one's saying that, you know, drinking, having a drink every once in a while, or is an okay, or any other legal substance may not be okay every once in a while. It's more, you know, if it's on a regular basis, if it's a regular thing in the household, what kind of message is that sending to your point? And how could that be influencing them to make similar kinds of decisions in the future? actually could be dangerous, proved to be dangerous down there.
 
Dr. Cam (27:00.268)
Yeah, it's about using it as a coping tool rather than having a healthy relationship with it, right? Okay. So, Stacey, what is one thing that you really want parents to take away from this conversation?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (27:16.726)
I think the most important thing is parents are the most influential adults in their children's life and that there is a very important role that parents play to influence the behavior, the decisions, the way that your children grow and develop. Parents think about that in a number of ways. Parents get tutors for their kids to do well in school. They involve their kids in all kinds of after -school activities because they want other kinds of ways to enrich and develop their children. The kinds of things that parents, and I'm of a generation where issues around mental health and talking about delicate issues in the household weren't things that parents did a lot of, right? So I had to bear the brunt of not having some of the benefit of some of the resources that we're offering to parents right now. But I think it is a reminder that as parents, it is important to have those what might be seen or thought of as somewhat difficult conversations. What's even more difficult is if you don't have the conversation and that leads your child to make some poor decisions in their life that could hurt them or others. That's an even tougher situation and conversation. So the most important thing is make sure that you're proactively working with your young person to listen to them, to develop that positive parenting relationship with them to make sure that you keep those open lines of communication, to make sure that you're modeling the best behavior, to make sure that you understand that drinking and drug driving is still a major issue in this country. And unfortunately, it's affecting far too many young people, some of them even before they're even legally allowed to drink or use drugs. Therefore, getting to your young person as early as possible with these healthy conversations is really important. And that's what MAD is focused on to try to prevent impaired driving in the future, now and in the future. leverage our tools at madd .org. Our parents program is an evidence -based program. It's been peer reviewed. It's been studied. It has proven to work to help kids make better decisions and keep our roads safer. So that's the most important thing.
 
Dr. Cam (29:34.284)
That is fantastic. will link again to that. And I do really encourage people to look at it as a great, great resource. And thank you guys for providing that. think that's really helpful. So Stacey, thank you so much for jumping on and sharing with us. Yeah, it's wonderful.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (29:46.404)
Thank you. it's so great to see you. Absolutely. It's great to see you. Thank you for having me.
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast provides expert advice and practical strategies for parents navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam, an adolescent psychologist, this podcast offers real-world insights to help parents strengthen their relationships with their teens and support their emotional development. Each episode provides actionable tips that make parenting easier and more rewarding. #ParentingTeens #MADD #UnderageDrinking #ImpairedDriving #PositiveParenting

3 Proven Ways to Motivate Strong-Willed Teenagers and Build Trust with Kirk Martin

If you're struggling to connect with your strong-willed teenager and every conversation feels like a tug-of-war, you're not alone. In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with parenting expert Kirk Martin, founder of CelebrateCalm.com and host of the Calm Parenting Podcast. Together, they share practical and actionable strategies to turn defiance and power struggles into calm, productive conversations. You'll learn how to motivate your strong-willed teen, build a trusting relationship, and navigate these challenging years with more peace and understanding.
Tune in to discover how changing your approach as a parent can transform your family dynamic and empower your teen to be their authentic self. Don’t miss out on these game-changing tips!
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How to Build a Close, Trusting Connection with your teen to motivate them without using control or manipulation.
Why Parents Should Focus on Changing Themselves instead of trying to change their teen's behavior.
The Power of Bonding by sharing interests with your teen and asking them to teach you something they’re passionate about.
How Releasing Parental Expectations can help your teen embrace their authentic self and take ownership of their actions.
The Importance of Normalizing Teen Challenges by understanding that their behavior is often a reaction to their environment, not an attack on you.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?If you found this episode helpful, don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode with friends and family, and leave a rating and review to help other parents discover the support they need. Your feedback helps me continue creating episodes packed with practical tips for families just like yours! Thanks for your support! 🙏💫
🔔 Don’t forget to Follow so you never miss another episode filled with solutions that make parenting teens easier! 🙌
 
TOP 5 TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Self-Reflection Is Key – Parents should focus on changing their own responses and mindset instead of trying to change their teen’s behavior. This shift can lead to better communication and fewer power struggles.
Empathy Over Control – Building a strong relationship with your teen starts with understanding their world, not trying to control it. Listening and empathizing is more powerful than imposing rules.
Bonding Over Shared Interests – Find common ground with your teen and engage in activities they love. Asking them to teach you something is a great way to build connection and show respect for their expertise.
Release the Pressure – Let go of strict expectations about who your teen should be. Empower them by recognizing their natural gifts and talents, which fosters confidence and independence.
Mentors Are Essential – Outside mentorship can provide your teen with additional support and guidance that may be more effective than what you can offer as a parent. Encourage them to seek out these valuable relationships.
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Calm Parenting Podcast
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction: Effective Strategies for Motivating Strong-Willed Teenagers
01:22 Kirk's Backstory: How to Transform the Parent-Teen Relationship
03:12 Self-Reflection in Parenting: Why Changing Yourself Helps Your Teen
06:25 How to Build a Strong Connection with Your Teen
09:44 The Power of Listening: Acknowledging Your Teen’s Voice
12:55 How to Work with Parents to Facilitate Positive Change
17:21 Motivating Your Teen: The Importance of Releasing Parental Expectations
20:37 Empowering Teenagers: Helping Them Discover Their Authentic Self
21:13 Building a Strong Emotional Bond with Your Teenager
25:37 Identifying and Creating Opportunities for Your Teen to Shine
30:51 Normalizing the Challenges of Raising Teenagers
37:15 How Social Media Affects Teen Behavior: Understanding the Impact
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Kirk Martin
Website: CelebrateCalm.com
Instagram: @calmparentingpodcast
Facebook: @CelebrateCalm
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:01.646) Hey parents, if you're struggling to get through to your strong-willed teenager, feeling like every conversation turns into a battle, you're not alone. Today we're diving into three ways to motivate strong-willed teenagers. I'm joined by a special guest who's a game changer in this area, Kirk Martin. Kirk is the founder of CelebrateCom.com and host of the Calm Parenting podcast. He’s mastered the art of transforming defiance and power struggles into productive conversations. Today, he’s going to share practical strategies to not only get our teens to listen but also build a close, trusting relationship with them. Kirk, welcome to the show.
Kirk (00:42.332) Dr. Cam, I'm super excited to be here!
Dr. Cam (00:44.874) Yes, this is great. Let's start with your backstory. What inspired you to start working with parents and their teenagers?
Kirk (00:53.02) Our own son. Our son, Casey, came out of the womb with boxing gloves on – that kind of strong-willed kid who fights you over everything. Like most parents, I parented like my dad did: fear and intimidation, yelling, and screaming. But with a strong-willed child, you know this – they’re fight-or-flight kids. You double down on your discipline, and your strong-willed child will push back even harder.
Dr. Cam (01:22.375) Exactly.
Kirk (01:23.644) So, I spent the first seven or eight years of his life trying to change him, thinking, "He just needs to listen to me." But then I realized, no, I need to change myself. I was yelling at my son, telling him to calm down, when inside, he was probably thinking, "Apparently, you haven't mastered that skill at 35!" Everything changed when I changed. I stopped feeding off my anxiety, control issues, and perfectionism as a parent. Then, we did something a little weird that my wife hated. I said, “I have an awesome idea—let’s bring in strong-willed kids, kids on the spectrum, into our home for something called Lego camp.” The idea was to teach impulse control, emotion regulation, and social skills in real-life situations, not in an office. And all the kids came, not knowing they were being worked on. It was kind of like play therapy, but outside of an office setting.
We did that for a decade, and over 1,500 kids came through our home. That’s the backstory. Eventually, we started speaking, and I shifted from working with kids—which was the easy part—to working with the parents. You know this, Dr. Cam: we, as parents, bring so much baggage into it. But when I changed, everything shifted in the family dynamic.
Dr. Cam (03:10.34) I love that. And I love how it started with your self-awareness because that’s the key to all of parenting—the ability to stop and ask, "What’s my part in this dynamic?" If we focus on changing our teen, nothing will change unless we're willing to change ourselves.
Kirk (03:30.684) Yeah, that’s true. You know, when you're looking at that middle school child who's been in the same hoodie for 18 straight days, playing video games, and you start thinking, "Who’s going to marry this kid? Who’s going to hire this kid?" You start lecturing them, pointing out everything they're doing wrong.
Dr. Cam (03:32.302) So, what’s the problem with that approach?
Kirk (03:57.924) Eventually, they shut down or say, “Screw you” inside, thinking, “You're never happy with me.” The good news, though, is if our success as a family depends on changing our spouse or child, we’re in trouble. We can’t change another person. But if it depends on changing ourselves, we’ve got a shot. When you change yourself, it actually changes how your kids respond to you.
Dr. Cam (04:32.164) 100%. And when you started working with parents, my whole philosophy is the same. Teens won’t change unless we work with the parents. Once the parents change, the teens usually come along, too. So let’s talk about that typical teen—the one wearing the hoodie, hiding in their room playing games, and giving one-word responses when we ask about their day. A lot of parents take that very personally. They feel like their teen is pushing them out of their life, so they try to insert themselves more and more. Or they demand that their teen come down and spend time with them, regardless of whether the teen enjoys it. Why don’t these approaches work?
Kirk (05:27.516) Well, kids—especially teens—are supposed to be independent, right? It would be weird if a 15-year-old said, "Mom, I’d rather spend time with you than my friends." That’s the normal stage for them. With strong-willed kids, the more you push, the more they resist. For me, it’s about drawing them to me and leading. For example, when our son was a teenager, if he brought something up, I would think, “I have this lecture in my head about how to choose friends.” But instead, I’d say, “Hey, Casey, I have some thoughts on that, but I need to get started on dinner. I’ll be in the garage, and if you want to come chat later, I’d love to share.” I wasn’t forcing it on him. They won’t come to you and say, “Dad, you have so much wisdom, I’m ready to hear it.” They’ll probably say, “Okay, what are your dumb ideas?” But I don’t take it personally. Any positive interaction is a win. It’s all about resetting expectations.
Dr. Cam (07:14.306) Yes! That’s such a great point. And honestly, that’s a sign of healthy development. It’s normal for a teen to be a little sassy.
Kirk (07:18.908) Right! It would be strange if they weren’t a little sassy at 13 or 16. There’s a difference between normal sass and outright defiance. If they’re calling you names or saying, “I hate you,” that’s a different issue. But the normal sass is just part of growing up.
Dr. Cam (07:39.902) Exactly. What I’ve seen is that the more extreme attitude often comes after a lot of normal sass and being shut down or punished for it. They get frustrated when their normal attempts at independence aren’t accepted. Have you noticed that?
Kirk (08:07.164) Yeah, Dr. Cam, do you agree with this? When they’ve crossed that threshold into anger and frustration, it’s almost like they’re crying out, “I’ve been trying to tell you this, but you’re not listening.” They’re not mature enough to say, “Dad, you haven’t adjusted well to my new independence. Can we talk about this?” So it just comes out in anger. Does that sound right?
Dr. Cam (08:41.546) It's a hundred percent, and that's what the teens tell me all the time. Several of them have actually tried saying not exactly the words you've used, but have tried saying that and gotten shot down. Like, "You're being disrespectful telling me what I need to do." Right? And so teens don't have a voice. Even if they see this and ask for something to be changed, they don’t get heard. They get shut down, and that being shut down a few times leads to this: "I don't care anymore. If you're going to make my life miserable, I'm going to make your life miserable." And I see a lot of that.
Kirk (09:18.554) And they'll win at that because the strong-willed kids don’t care about consequences, right? So you’ll be like, “Well, I’m going to take away all your video games,” and they’re like, “Fine. I will literally sit in my room and stare at the wall.” Then the parents are going to freak out. It’s not about winning in that situation. So, good. Yeah, I found people of all ages want to be heard. And it doesn't mean we have to endlessly listen to every little complaint—not that. But most of our teenagers, they're really bright kids, right? And I always tell parents, “Listen, they’re trying to tell you something.” It doesn’t mean you give in, you don’t buy them everything they want, not that. But when they do bring something up, I like the more humble approach, which is saying, “Hey, I need to apologize to you because I think I’ve spent the last five, seven, 13 years just lecturing you and just talking all the time, and I haven’t really listened.” And if you start listening, well, then they’re gonna come to you too, right? They might spend like seven minutes with you instead of a minute and a half at night. So, right? 'Cause I’m always with teens, I’m like, “Take any opportunity you can.” Because typical teenage life, to me, is—especially during the school year—they come home, they don’t want to talk about school.
By the way, can I share this one? Kind of a cool idea. So the strong-willed kids that we work with, they’re not always great at school. They’re really smart, but they’re not. So asking them after school, “Hey, how was your day at school?” It’s like, “Hey, how was that day at the place that you don’t have a lot of friends, you’re bored?” Yeah, it sucks. What else do you want to know, Mom? Right? And then the next question is, “Well, do you have any homework?” “No, I got it all done in study hall.” And they just lied to you.
Dr. Cam (10:44.206) Yes, please.
Kirk (11:12.016) That afternoon time after school, when you ask about their day, it sounds like an interrogation to them because it’s filled with our anxiety. "How did you do? How did you do on that test?" Because I need you to do well on that test so you can get a good grade, so you can get into the right college, so you can get a good job, so you can get that. So after school, sometimes, complete silence at times can be really wonderful. And if you want to have a conversation, this is really cool to say: “Hey, you know what? Something happened to me today at the post office, at work, or in the political world. I’m curious, what would you do if you were in my situation?” And now you switch it from interrogating them about their day to listening to their ideas about your day. It’s a really cool thing to get them to open up.
Dr. Cam (12:02.432) It is amazing, and I want to throw in there too that parents will listen to this and then they’ll go do it. They’ll ask exactly what you just said, and their kids will be like, “I don’t care.” So the reason I say this is because it’s not something that you can just snap and go, "Okay, I’m going to change my approach today," and they’re immediately going to change their response. That does not happen, right? What can parents...
Kirk (12:25.372) No, it’s immediate, Dr. Cam. All you have to do is one time, and then they should... I’m kidding. No, of course, yeah. Well, by the time you get to the teen years, you’ve had at least 13 years, especially the kids we work with. I mean, they’re in trouble from the time they’re little. They’ve developed a defensive kind of shield around their heart. They’ve been in trouble a lot. It’s going to take time. And I always encourage parents: I’m after the really long game.
Dr. Cam (12:30.052) Exactly. And everything changes.
Kirk (12:55.26) I’m after these kids bringing their grandkids to you, right? Because, you know, you work with these families. Sometimes the relationship has been severed and hurt for 13 or 14 years. So I play the long game. And so, look, you change... anyway, I want you to change, not because you’re hoping for a result, but just because it’s the right thing to do, right? And it will bear fruit. It sometimes just takes time. Yeah, so do it a few times and don’t be discouraged when they say, “I don’t know.”
I tried your method and he said, “I don’t know.” I’m like, okay, because he’s waiting for you. He’s going to say something, and then your next question is going to be, “So how was school today? Did you get your homework done?” Like, you know what... An apology, I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older, apologies and praising kids are all just statements of fact. “Hey, I want to apologize because for the first...
Dr. Cam (13:35.549) It’s a trap.
Kirk (13:52.572) Thirteen years of your life, I think I’ve sent the message that you’re not capable of being successful. I’ve micromanaged you. I lecture you. I’m always on you about your room, your hygiene, all of this. And that’s about my own anxiety. I want to apologize. It’s not groveling. I don’t want to say, “I’ve been such a bad parent.” It’s just an acknowledgment of truth—that’s the way I’ve done it. And I can imagine that’s made you feel... and then you fill that in. Like, “You could never please me.” That was mine with my son. “Hey Casey, it’s like you could never please me because I’m never really happy.” Right? I’ll say like, “Hey, good job, but...” So when I started having these discussions with him, he never looked at me and said, “Dad, that’s so meaningful to me that you would acknowledge that.” Not in the moment, but I could see it was like, “My dad’s getting it now.” And it was connecting with his heart, and it slowly began to shift our relationship.
Dr. Cam (14:55.854) Yeah, I think that is so beautiful because we need to shift our focus not from getting the response we want from our kids. Because we’re setting them up to fail and us to be disappointed. But setting it up so that we are showing up the way we want to show up for them consistently and without expectation of how they’re going to respond. And I think that expectation is very difficult to manage.
Kirk (15:26.524) That’s good, Dr. Cam. That’s good. We could end it right there. Boom. No, that’s the hard part. But that’s the same as it is for, you know, a three-year-old. It’s like, “Well, when’s my toddler going to start to get some self-discipline?” I’m like, “She’s not 40, okay?” Like, they’re developing. So yeah, I’m with you on that. You do the right thing, and the really great thing, which I know you’ve found is...
Dr. Cam (15:29.884) Right there, mic drop, boom.
Kirk (15:55.534) It changes you as a person. All that anxiety—it affects every relationship. And now, especially in the teen years, moms and dads, you've done a good job with your kids, right? If you're listening to a parenting podcast, you're a good parent. The bad ones aren’t tuning in. You've done everything. You've given every lecture, hopefully modeled things well. So now, throw that extra energy into changing yourself. You don’t need to make sandwiches anymore, you have more time. It will free you to enjoy the rest of your life, and your kids will see that. They’ll watch and say, "I just saw my mom or dad change right in front of my eyes." That’s the biggest lesson you could give them.
Dr. Cam (16:52.034) Yeah, it's amazing when we do that. But I know parents are still thinking, "Okay, you’ve said if I listen and change, I’ll see results, but how do I get my teen to do what I want?" They want their teen to get up and do something. If their kid stays in their room all day, not motivated, they’re worried, “How do I put fire in their belly?”
Kirk (17:41.66) You can’t put fire in their belly. That’s step one: You can’t do it. Parents, you’ve tried rewards, money, bribery. You’ve tried every consequence and punishment. It’s been 15 years, and none of that worked. So realize, you can’t do it for them.
Dr. Cam (17:43.62) Thank you.
Kirk (18:11.844) Building your connection with them is the most important thing you can do. Bonding over something they’re interested in is key. I know as a dad, I used to think, “Let me get my son interested in what I like.” My son was super into cars, and I hated cars. But every Saturday, we went to a dealership to look at cars and test drive them. It was agenda-free time. I wasn’t allowed to make dad analogies—no "life is like a car" talk. We just enjoyed each other.
Try to enjoy your teen. Smile at their attitude. They’re smart kids, and sometimes their comments are disrespectful, but clever too. I’d think, "That was really disrespectful, but well done." They’re smart.
Another idea for strong-willed kids: Ask them to teach you something. You’ve spent their whole life telling them what to do, but let them teach you something. Ask them to help with technology. My son helped me, and it gave him a sense of agency—he wasn’t the little boy anymore.
You also have to fight the anxiety. Your kids will change. Look, I was a dopey 15-year-old. If you looked at me back then, you’d think, "How is this kid going to succeed?" They grow and change. But I promise, the sooner you release them—say, "I release you to be who you are, to be the person you’re supposed to be"—that’s powerful language.
Dr. Cam (20:34.564) That’s really powerful. I love that.
Kirk (20:37.702) Can you talk about that for a minute? Because you’re good at this with teens—releasing them.
Dr. Cam (20:44.58) From the teen perspective, they spend so much time trying to get approval from their parents. They end up disregarding who they are to meet their parents' expectations. So they start doubting themselves, not having the confidence to make decisions or share their opinions. This causes them to shut down.
When we release them from our expectations, it’s like cutting the cord. A lot of parents see their kids as an extension of themselves, which is why they try to control them. But if we see our kids as separate people, our role is to adapt to their needs.
Kirk (21:52.656) Dr. Cam, that’s awesome. If you do that, then my second step would be this: For the next week, affirm everything your child is already doing well. Just relentlessly. "Hey, nice job with that." With strong-willed kids, keep it short and sweet. "I saw how you handled that. You’re growing." Don’t expect long thank-yous. Praise the small things, like when they bring their plate to the sink.
It’s easy to get irritated by the typical teen behavior—leaving the fridge open, eating snacks, leaving trash around. But when they do something good, even small things, acknowledge it. Simple stuff like, “I really love hearing your perspective.” No need for long speeches.
Dr. Cam (23:29.702) It’s so uncomfortable.
Kirk (23:48.154) Here’s something fantastic: If your kids play video games, recognize the positive traits they show. I hated video games. I wanted my son to be outside, but I realized when he played, he was goal-oriented, persistent, and a leader. I said to him, “I’ve noticed you’re really motivated and persistent when you’re on your video games. When you find your vision in life, you’ll use those qualities to crush it.” And then I gave him a fist bump and walked out.
Dr. Cam (24:12.452) That’s great!
Kirk (24:15.704) It’s about recognizing the good qualities they already have. Strong-willed kids may only do the bare minimum, but affirm their progress.
If I could give you one more tip: Help your kids use their natural gifts, talents, and passions outside the home. The neurotypical kids get praise for being good at school, but our strong-willed kids often don’t excel in the typical school setting. Outside the home, they can shine.
Dr. Cam (24:52) That’s huge.
Kirk (25:00) Let them use their gifts in other settings. And third, hold them accountable to another adult. Other adults see things you might not. They can hold your kids accountable in ways you can’t.
For example, if your kid loves soccer but struggles with school, find a coach who could use their help with younger kids. This external validation, from someone else, can be powerful.
I had a mom ask me about her teenage daughter with a bad attitude. I asked, “What does she love doing?” The daughter loved soccer and was great with little kids. I suggested she help out at a local soccer practice. The daughter was thrilled, and it gave her a sense of purpose. It worked because the recognition came from someone outside the family.
That’s the key—find a way to connect your kid’s passions with real-world opportunities.
Dr. Cam (27:56.94): Yeah, that's a big difference. That right there separates whether it's going to work or not.
Kirk (28:02.78): Yeah, so arrange that. They'll do it for someone else because they like pleasing others, just not you. So this girl, Rebecca, goes out on Tuesday night. She's in her environment, around little kids, and loves soccer. At the end of practice, she gets hugs from 12 little girls. When she comes home, does she have attitude? No, because her gifts were drawn out of her, and she had a purpose, something she was good at doing. The coach said, "We’ve got a game Saturday morning. Could you help out?" Of course, she’s there. After the game, two sets of parents came up to her and said, "Look, we don't know who you are, but our daughters never stopped talking about you. They're struggling in school. Would you consider tutoring them?" Not knowing that Rebecca hadn’t done schoolwork in years. But now, she has a reason to do it—because she wants to help these little kids. The key is to discover what motivates your child, not what motivates you.
As parents, we might be motivated by school because we were good at it and got attention. But maybe your child isn’t good at school. You need to discover what motivates them. The coach told Rebecca, "If you're going to work with these little kids, I better not hear from your mom that you're mouthing off. You better keep a B average if you’re going to help me because I’m looking for a leader." Now, Rebecca has something to work for.
We often do this with kids who are good with animals. Get them volunteering at a veterinarian's office. The vet might say, "You've got a gift with animals. You could be a vet one day." And that’s the first time someone has told that child they could be a veterinarian. Everyone else is focused on their grades and bad behavior. But the vet sees the gift. That’s when the child comes home and says, "Mom, I want to be a veterinarian." And mom’s thinking, "I’m not sure you're even making it out of middle school," but now they're motivated. So I’d encourage you to find their mission and a mentor. A mission they can throw themselves into.
Dr. Cam (30:51.438): Yeah, that's the beauty of having your own podcast. You can go as long as you want.
Kirk (30:52.086): I’ll give you one more, and I’m sorry for dominating the conversation. You know who’s really good with teenagers? Older people. Find an older couple in your neighborhood and have them reach out to your teenager. Ask them for help with something they can’t do anymore. Your teenager walks in, and they’re going to love on them. They miss having kids around, and they’ll teach them about life. Your teens will come home saying, "Yeah, I like the Robinsons down the street. They said that I'm really good at X." And then, just send them to do their homework, and they'll spend a lot of time with that old couple. It's a really effective strategy for teens. Older people are very grounding for teens. They've been through hard times, and they don’t carry all that anxiety. They can reach into a teenager's heart in a way that other people can’t. They'll say, "I remember what that was like," even if it was back in 1947. There's something beautiful about that.
Dr. Cam (32:19.78): I really, really love that. And I think it's beneficial for both sides because the couple probably loves having that younger energy too. But having someone who has no agenda, who can purely see the child’s heart and authenticity, and just be okay with whatever that is—it's priceless. When teens act out, it's a cry for exactly that. That’s why they have attitude. They're not just being nasty for the sake of it. It's not like they all meet online and say, “Let’s be mean today.” They’re reacting to their environment. If they're reacting poorly, that means the environment isn't giving them what they need to thrive. That’s not their fault.
Kirk (33:20.925): Preach it. I love that. I can tell you're passionate about it because it’s true. You begin to control your own anxiety, affirm them for what they're doing well, and then put them in situations where they can help little kids, work with animals, or be around older people. You’ll see a subtle shift. But be patient. They're fighting 13, 15, 17 years of a different way. So go slowly with it. It’s a cool process. My number one piece of advice is to enjoy your teenagers. Enjoy a little bit of that attitude. Enjoy their energy. Ask them about their friends. They’ll talk inappropriately, of course, and sometimes just laugh. You might think, “That’s inappropriate,” but it's actually spot-on. Like, "Sarah’s mom is a little like that." You’re right.
Dr. Cam (34:18.744): Yeah. And I think it’s also about accepting their language. Just because they don’t use our language doesn’t mean it’s disrespectful. I see so many people complaining about their kids calling them "bro." But that’s actually a term of endearment. For them, it’s not disrespectful—it's them being chummy. Parents get upset, but it’s just their way of connecting. Understanding their language can make a big difference.
Kirk (34:40.93): It is. You can always look at it if they use it in a disrespectful way, right? But when they say, "Okay, bro," you can have some fun with it. The next time they ask for something, you can say, "Hey, it’s unfortunate, but your bro doesn’t have money and can’t drive. But your dad can." I did that with my son once. But you can have fun with it instead of saying, “When I was a kid, if I’d called my dad bro…” Right? That just means you're really old.
Dr. Cam (35:13.928): It does! And I tell parents this all the time: You are not as amazing and perfect as you think you were. I can guarantee you drove your parents crazy too.
Kirk (35:26.012): Yeah, I always tell dads, “Look, you were a dopey 8-year-old and a clueless 14-year-old. You were just trying to figure life out. They’re just trying to figure life out too.” I always tell parents, relax a little. It's like, yes, we have to train them, but remember—they're not 35 yet. Same with teenagers. They're not grown-ups yet. When it comes to toddlers, I tell parents, “Write a job description for a 3-year-old.” It's not to wake up, put on a suit, and be perfect—it’s to make messes, be curious, and explore. It's the same with teenagers. They’re not adults. But one other thing I’d throw in is normalizing the teen years for them.
This is a weird time in life. There's no other time when you’re grouped in classes with kids your own age, listening to people talk about stuff you just don’t care about, and dealing with all the social stuff. As an adult, you get to choose so much, but right now, it's hard. So, if they feel awkward, they should. Because they are. Just don’t tell them that.
Dr. Cam (36:27.074): Yeah, it's terrible.
Kirk (36:47.18): Absolutely. Their hormones are out of control. They're not even in control of their own bodies, half the time. Their minds and thoughts are all over the place. It's a wonder how teenage boys can even pay attention in class when there's Instagram out there, with all those images they can see. Seriously. I mean, I don’t know how they get up in the morning and do anything.
 Dr. Cam (37:11.99): Exactly. It's true.
Kirk (37:15.78): I didn't mean to be inappropriate, but as teenage boys, we had to sneak around to see pictures in a magazine. And now it's like, my Instagram feed is full of girls with no clothes on. Like that's a hard world to navigate. We didn't have this whole social media thing. It's hard for us as adults too—our friends are posting about vacations, and we’re left wondering, "How come we didn’t take that nice vacation?"
Dr. Cam (37:44.342): Right? I’ll tell you, I see more pressure coming from parents based on what they see on Instagram and social media, which they then put on their kids because they say, "Well, look, all my friends' kids are doing this. So you need to do it too." Parents, you can't use your phone to judge your kids and what you see on their phones to judge them. That’s a hard thing. And I think the other thing—and I’m curious what your thoughts are on this—I personally am highly annoyed with how much emphasis is being put on social media and tech as the cause of mental health issues. I see it more as a symptom than the actual cause of the problem.
Kirk (38:28.764): I agree. And this is where I’m not about guilt-blaming parents, right? I’m very honest with parents. I’ll say, "Hey, you're a freak in that area. You need to stop that." But if you have a really good bond and a trusting relationship with your child, and they’re doing some positive, constructive things—that’s my goal with the mission and mentor—let’s just start with something simple. Let’s just take them 30 minutes down to the Robinson’s house one day a week. If they’re doing that, then the outside pressures of social media won’t hit them as hard. They’re a little inoculated. But if they always feel like they can never please their parents, and everyone’s trying to make them be someone they’re not, then they’re much more susceptible to things like vaping and other risky behaviors. Focus on the connection. Stay close to your kids.
And even if they just sit in their room and don’t get good grades, you have smart kids. Once they get a vision for their life, strong-willed kids often just do the bare minimum to get by all the way through high school. And you’ll think, "But you’re not doing this, or not doing that." But I’m telling you—it’s strategically brilliant.
Dr. Cam (39:43.96): That’s right. They’re working smart, not hard.
Kirk (39:46.588): Why would they do extra work to get grades they don’t care about? We told them, "In order to keep your screens, you have to maintain exactly a 79.3 average." And they’ll get a 79.3—not a 79.4. But why wouldn’t they do their best? Because they’re not motivated by it. Then, as they get a little older, gain vision, and take ownership of their lives, they turn it on. I’ll tell you, the strong-willed kids have it harder, but they’re not made to be kids. You put them in the adult world, and they crush it.
Look, our son, Casey, was horrible as a child. He didn’t clean his room and was awful. But in the real world, which is what you’re raising them for—you’re not raising kids to be kids, you’re raising them to be adults—Casey crushes it. He’s just terrible at all the arbitrary kid stuff. And parents, cleaning their bedrooms? There’s a reason there’s a door. Just chill. You’re a freak. Own that. And by the way, if there’s a fire, they’ll be able to get out. That’s an excuse. Sit in the mess until it doesn’t trigger you.
Dr. Cam (40:54.39): Yeah, I know. We are so on the same page, Kirk. I’m exactly the same way. I’ve got the messy room and I’m like, "Do not even leave that cracked open because it’ll give me heart palpitations." But it’s your space. It’s not my space. You deal with it the way you want to deal with it. I agree with everything you’re saying. I love that. So, Kirk, how do people find you?
Kirk (41:13.638): You can look up the Calm Parenting Podcast. That’s the best way. We’re also at CelebrateCalm.com, but the Calm Parenting Podcast is the main one. You can email us if you have specific issues with teens or kids. Some of you probably have younger kids too—hopefully, more compliant, easy ones. But hopefully not. Because the strong-willed kids will change you and make you a different person. It’s awesome. So yeah, check out the podcast.
Dr. Cam (41:48.576): I love it. Thank you so much, Kirk, for joining us today. I really appreciate you. You’re awesome.
Kirk (41:51.142): Dr. Cam, you’re awesome. I can’t wait to send a lot of our teens directly to your podcast because your approach is so great. You’re chill, you’re not freaking out about stuff, and you’re really good at this. Thank you for what you’re doing.
Dr. Cam (42:05.55): Thank you. Absolutely.
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together.
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Helping Tweens Succeed in School: Parenting Strategies for Academic Success

Helping your tween thrive academically isn’t just about grades—it’s about fostering motivation, independence, and a love for learning. In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with JoAnn Schauf, founder of Your Tween and You, to discuss how parents can set their tweens up for success in school without constant battles over homework and grades.
JoAnn, often called the Parent Whisperer, shares expert insights from her book Loving the Alien: How to Parent Your Tween. She provides practical strategies to help tweens develop strong study habits, take ownership of their learning, and build confidence in their abilities.
 
What You'll Learn in This Episode
How to encourage motivation without nagging
The best ways to help your tween set and reach academic goals
Why focusing on strengths leads to better learning outcomes
How to balance support and independence in schoolwork
The role of technology in learning—and how to set boundaries
 
5 Key Takeaways for Parents of Tweens
Collaboration boosts motivation – Involve tweens in goal-setting to help them feel invested in their education.
Study habits matter more than grades – Focus on effort, organization, and progress rather than just report cards.
Let them take ownership – Encourage problem-solving instead of fixing everything for them.
Support, don’t micromanage – Guide your tween in developing independence rather than controlling their work.
Praise the process, not just the outcome – Recognize hard work, consistency, and small wins to build confidence.
 
Enjoying the Show?
If this episode helped you, please share it with other parents! Also, don’t forget to leave a rating and review—your support helps more families find practical parenting strategies.
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Resources Mentioned in This Episode
20% discount for new coaching clients through September 15, 2024 at YourTweenandYou.com
Episode Chapters
00:00 – Introduction and Background
03:01 – Encouraging Motivation Without Nagging
08:05 – Setting Realistic Academic Goals
13:56 – Balancing Support and Independence
19:01 – The Role of Technology in Learning
24:54 – Focusing on Strengths Over Grades
31:48 – Helping Tweens Build Study Habits
36:50 – Conclusion and Book Recommendation
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: JoAnn Schauf
Website: YourTweenandYou.com
Instagram: @YourTweenandYou
YouTube: Your Tween and You
Facebook: @YourTweenandYou
LinkedIn: JoAnn Schauf
 
Connect with Your Host: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:00.762)Hello, parents of tweens and teens! As the new school year approaches, prepping our tweens for success is more important than ever. Today, we're diving into some of the biggest challenges parents face: balancing expectations, navigating social dynamics, and setting up accountability for academic success. Our special guest, JoAnn Schauf, is here to share expert insights. Often called the "Parent Whisperer," JoAnn is the author of Loving the Alien: How to Parent Your Tween and founder of Your Tween and You, a resource dedicated to supporting, empowering, and inspiring parents. She’s here to give us valuable tips and actionable advice to help our tweens have their best school year yet. JoAnn, welcome to the show!
JoAnn Schauf (00:48.354)Thank you so much! It’s so fun to be here.
Dr. Cam (00:50.444)It is! I love starting with the backstory. What inspired you to help parents and their tweens?
JoAnn Schauf (00:58.872)This has been building for a while. I was a school counselor when cell phones first became a big thing, and parents were tearing their hair out. It was already tough—tweens were hibernating in their rooms, and parents felt lost because they weren’t as involved in middle school as they were in elementary school. At one point, I had more parents in my office than students because they didn’t know what to do with technology. Then I realized—it wasn’t just technology. There were so many things parents needed help with. So, I thought, They need a book. They need tools and strategies to understand what’s going on with their tweens. That’s how it all started.
Dr. Cam (01:49.976)Such a big need! By the time this episode airs, school will be even closer, and parents are already starting to panic. What are some of the biggest challenges they come to you about?
JoAnn Schauf (02:15.054)Technology is a huge one. It used to be recommended to keep the family computer in a shared space so parents could monitor usage. Now, we’ve gone from that to handing kids a smartphone with unlimited access, and no one knew the rules. Parents didn’t grow up with this either, so there wasn’t any historical guidance. We had to write a playbook to help them figure it out.
Dr. Cam (02:54.042)Yeah, what specific challenges are causing the biggest struggles?
JoAnn Schauf (03:01.422)Everything from stranger danger to video game addiction to kids staying up all night texting. Sleep is critical, and if they’re on their phones all night, it affects everything. Parents need to take control, but we also need to think about our own screen habits. If we’re on our phones constantly, we’re not setting a great example. It’s easy to fall into the “do as I say, not as I do” trap.
Dr. Cam (03:48.629)All the time. Exactly.
JoAnn Schauf (03:51.118)One little device has completely changed how we function as a society.
Dr. Cam (04:02.274)It really has. And parents often see it as a negative just because it’s different from how we grew up. A lot of school-related conflict comes down to two things: pressure to succeed and battles over phone use. Parents expect straight A’s in every subject, regardless of a child’s strengths or interests, and they want them off their phones completely during homework. But many kids actually use their phones to help with schoolwork—whether it’s researching online or FaceTiming a friend for support. When we take the phone away, we might be removing their learning tools instead of solving the real problem. How do we find a balance where kids can focus without constant battles over technology?
JoAnn Schauf (05:22.318)The key is to avoid turning it into a battle. The moment it becomes a power struggle, no one wins. I encourage parents to collaborate instead of just laying down the law. Saying, “You can only use it from this time to this time, and it stays in the kitchen the rest of the day,” creates a feeling of distrust. The stricter you are, the more they’ll resist. A better approach is to invite them into a conversation:
“School’s starting soon. You’ve had a lot of freedom with technology over the summer. Let’s figure out a plan together so we’re not constantly fighting about it.”
Dr. Cam (06:01.442)Yes! That’s not just teens—that’s human nature.
JoAnn Schauf (06:17.592)Exactly. This approach gives them a sense of ownership. Instead of laying down rules, ask, “How can we set this up so we both feel good about it?” That way, it’s a collaborative solution, not a dictatorship.
Dr. Cam (06:31.866)I love that. But let’s be real—many parents interpret “having a conversation” as “I’ll tell you the rules, and you’ll listen.” Why doesn’t that work?
JoAnn Schauf (06:50.926)Because tweens don’t want to be bossed around. They’re figuring out their identity, what they believe in, and how they fit into the world. Two things they crave most are independence and autonomy. If you just lay down rules, they’ll resist—even if they agree with you. It’s part of growing up.
Dr. Cam (07:31.696)And if they do obey, they’re either miserable or sneaky about it.
JoAnn Schauf (07:36.526)Right. That’s why parents need to gradually let go of control so kids learn to self-regulate. By the time they’re on their own at 18 or 21, they need to know how to manage their time, their responsibilities, and yes—their screen use.
Dr. Cam (08:12.016)Many parents worry that if they don’t enforce strict limits, their kids will be on their phones 24/7 and their grades will plummet. What’s your response?
JoAnn Schauf (08:30.668)Collaboration is key. Say, “I don’t want to be the bad guy. I don’t want your phone to be the source of constant fights. How can we make this work for both of us?” If they feel involved in setting the rules, they’re much more likely to follow them.
Dr. Cam (09:03.354)Absolutely. Tweens and teens know their phones are distracting. Sometimes, they turn to them because they’re bored—not because they don’t care about school. Removing the phone doesn’t make homework more engaging. And not all screen time is equal.
JoAnn Schauf (09:44.206)Exactly! That’s why it’s important to define what’s allowed and what’s not. Tell them, “These are the apps I’m okay with. Since I’m paying for the phone, I need to see what you’re doing on it.” They won’t love that, but it’s about safety, not control. Parents aren’t spying—they’re making sure their kids are safe and using technology in a healthy way.
Dr. Cam (10:39.854): Yeah, so I think this is one of those fine lines you have to walk carefully because I agree with you. However, how we do it makes all the difference. If it's "This is my phone, I get to take it whenever I want," that’s hard because you gave it to them, and they’re having personal conversations with their friends. A lot of the kids I talk to have nothing to hide, but they feel responsible for keeping what their friends say confidential. I’ve had this experience with my daughter, where I said, "I want to look at this," and she got really upset. I asked, "What are you hiding?" It turned out she wasn’t hiding anything. I trust her, but she was worried about her friends. So I think how we handle the phone is important. I want to bring this back to academics because it’s really important. We want to create an expectation for school, but how do we do that so both we as parents and our teens are okay with it? If it doesn’t work for them, they won’t abide by it.
JoAnn Schauf (11:58.028): Right, and communication is really important. When we listen to understand our kids, we get knowledge about how they feel, what they’re doing, and what their plans are. The connection comes from listening, not just from telling them what to do. If we’re always focusing on things they’ve done wrong, they won’t feel comfortable coming to us with issues, like if someone is bothering them at school. As parents, it's on us to build that connection, to talk in a way they feel heard and listened to. One thing I really like is giving your child a voice. For example, when we talk about grades, we can ask, "What grades do you think you can earn?" Instead of saying, "I want you to get A's and B's," ask, "What do you think you can earn in math?" If math is their strong subject, they might say, "I can get between a 95 and 98 in math, no problem." But if they hate writing and reading, they might say, "I don’t like language arts. An 88 sounds good for me." The key is setting realistic goals. We can’t expect them to get all A’s everywhere, but if we help them set achievable goals, they’re more likely to succeed. Before school starts, I suggest sitting down with your teen to talk about their goals. The goals should be theirs, not ours.
Dr. Cam (15:14.468): Exactly. It’s also important to revisit those goals later in the year because it’s hard to set goals before they know the teacher, the class, or the workload. I’ve seen kids who do really well in elementary school but struggle in middle school because the work is tougher. The subjects become more specialized, and they realize, "I’m great in literature but not so good at science." Suddenly, they’re not straight A students anymore, and they think, "I’m stupid." They give up across the board. So I love your idea of helping them identify what they’re passionate about and where they need to work harder. If they love a subject, they’ll go all in. For the subjects they don’t enjoy, they still have to put in the effort, but they don’t have to be perfect.
JoAnn Schauf (16:26.606): Yeah, and you’re so right about middle school. In elementary school, kids can often correct their mistakes to improve their grades. So, if they get a 78, they might redo it and end up with an 88 or 90. That can inflate their grade a bit because they’re getting second chances. Middle school doesn’t offer as many second chances, and the grading reflects that. This is a tough transition for kids, especially when they’ve been successful before. They think, "I was smart last year, but this year I’m not," and that can be a hard blow.
Dr. Cam (17:17.024): I see this a lot. Kids' grades start to drop, and they think, "If I’m not getting straight A’s, I’m just not a straight A student anymore," so they give up. This is why focusing too much on the grade can be harmful. If the focus is on getting the grade, kids might do the least amount of work to get it, or even cheat. So, Joanne, let’s talk about how to motivate kids, especially in middle school. How do we help them develop intrinsic motivation without nagging?
JoAnn Schauf (18:05.674): One way to do this is by focusing on the tasks that lead to good grades, not just the grades themselves. Ask them, "What time will you do your homework? How will you stay organized?" Many kids submit homework online but sometimes forget to turn it in. It’s about teaching them the building blocks of success: doing homework, turning it in, and staying organized. Without these skills, the grades won’t come. It’s important to reward the process. When they get their homework done on time or organize their backpack, celebrate that. It’s about them feeling proud of their effort, not about us saying, "I’m proud of you." Intrinsic motivation comes when kids recognize their own hard work and feel good about it.
Dr. Cam (19:25.284): Yeah, and not trying to please us. I like the building blocks too because as parents, we often say, "Your grades are failing; you need to do better." And when I ask the kids, "What do you mean by 'do better'?" they don't know how to answer. Let's look at what's getting in your way. It's not that they're lazy; they just forget things, like turning in assignments. They don’t think about stuff like that at this age. So let's figure out a plan or try different strategies to see what works for them. I'm not going to tell you what to do because it might not work for you. What works for you to get your homework in on time? How can you remind yourself?
JoAnn Schauf (20:13.326): Right. One helpful thing is for kids to realize they have to submit their homework at a specific time. Once they have a plan—doing the work at this time and submitting it at this time—it becomes a habit. All of these things—doing the work, writing it down, and turning it in—become habits. It’s so sad when kids do all the work and don’t get credit for it because they didn’t turn it in on time. They should get credit for their effort.
Dr. Cam (20:49.658): Exactly, and I want to add something. One of the worst inventions, in my opinion, is the ability for parents to check grades every second of the day. I think it’s harmful for both kids and parents. Parents start owning the grade, and teachers don’t always update the grades on time. I’ve seen kids getting in trouble for their grades when the teacher hasn’t entered them yet. It creates so much unnecessary pressure and unrealistic expectations. I just wish it would go away.
JoAnn Schauf (21:44.266): It really is crazy. Before this, kids had less stress because they didn’t walk in the door and hear, "Why did you get a C+ on that test? You studied so hard, you knew everything. How did that happen?" How can a kid even answer that? So, what I tell my clients is this: make a deal with your kids in the summer about what they want to earn and how their homework will look. Promise that you’ll never open the grade portal. Every week, sit down with them—maybe with brownies or ice cream, or go for a walk—and let them open the portal to show you their grades. When they see it, they can think, "No wonder I have an 82 in social studies. I forgot to turn in that paper when I was sick." Then, they’ll take ownership and ask the teacher if they can turn it in late. That’s what ownership looks like.
Dr. Cam (22:56.934): I’m so glad you agree, Joanne. It’s all about ownership. I see it in the workplace too. People complain about Gen Z not having the right skills, but the problem is parents take so much ownership of everything that kids never learn how to do things themselves. We send them into the world with good grades, but they haven’t learned how to earn those grades on their own.
JoAnn Schauf (23:26.956): Exactly. When we own something, we take care of it, right? You get a new car, new dishes, or new clothes, and you take care of them because you own them. That feeling of ownership is powerful for kids. When parents don’t let go, it’s scary for them. They think if they don’t manage everything, their kids won’t succeed. But the truth is, kids would probably do better without the constant nagging. Just ask them, "What are you going to do? How are you going to handle your homework?" Let them decide. If they say, "I hate math, but I’ll do it first to get it out of the way," that’s their plan, and it’s empowering.
Dr. Cam (24:34.246): I love that one. "Go to the store and get this."
JoAnn Schauf (24:39.362): Yeah, there’s always that, "Can you stop what you’re doing and go get this?" But again, it’s their voice speaking, and that’s powerful.
Dr. Cam (24:43.878): It’s 100%. I’ve seen that with my daughter. She’s gone from having great grades to struggling, but she’s always taken ownership of it. Now, at 18, she manages everything herself. It’s amazing. She’s better at it than I am now.
Dr. Cam (25:22.63): She’s had ownership her whole life, including the responsibility to fail. If things didn’t work out, we never punished her; we worked together to figure it out. Now, she can solve problems on her own, which is incredible.
JoAnn Schauf (25:44.3): That’s awesome. You did a great job.
Dr. Cam (25:46.852): I’ve been focused on that. But parents have a hard time letting go because of fear—fear of what will happen if they do. I want to put more fear into them about not letting go, because that’s scarier. If they don’t, their kids won’t have the skills they need.
JoAnn Schauf (25:56.47): It’s true.
JoAnn Schauf (26:10.21): When you mentioned middle school earlier, that’s a great time for kids to experience failure. Failure is an opportunity to learn. If a kid didn’t study for a test, there’s no punishment. Instead, we ask, "If you could do it over, what would you do differently?" They might say, "I would’ve started reviewing my notes earlier." This kind of problem-solving teaches them what to do next time.
Dr. Cam (27:32.058): That’s great.
JoAnn Schauf (27:32.658): I did a workshop for teachers about "second-tier learning"—learning from mistakes. I asked them, "When you hand back tests, what happens?" They said they just move on. I asked, "What about helping them learn from what they missed?" After that, many teachers realized how valuable it is to give kids that chance to learn from their mistakes.
Dr. Cam (27:42.02): Yeah, it’s amazing when they can do that. And when they don’t fear failure, right? If they’re punished for failing, they’ll avoid it and hide it. But if they can solve the problem and learn from it, they won’t fear failure. They’ll be excited to try new things.
JoAnn Schauf (28:11.936): Exactly. Trying new things is so awesome for middle school kids. Sometimes, parents just need a reminder that failing in middle school won’t keep them from getting into Harvard Law School.
Dr. Cam (28:27.414): No, and getting into Harvard Law School isn’t a guarantee of a perfect life. Not everyone is made for Harvard Law. I think we need to focus on strengths too. Not all kids learn the same way. If they took a history test and didn’t do well, instead of saying, "Go study again," suggest something different—like watching a movie about it, reading a book, or playing a game. They could start learning in a fun way. My daughter, for example, if there’s a Broadway show about something, she’s all in. She knows everything about Hamilton, even if it's not totally accurate. So, let’s find ways to help them learn that works for them.
JoAnn Schauf (29:20.782): That’s a great idea. Kids love learning from videos, and hands-on learners need something tangible to connect with. If they didn’t get something right, have them show you what it looks like. They might build a model. The thing is, kids rarely realize they’re a hands-on learner, an auditory learner, or a visual learner. Once they or their parents figure it out, it really helps them learn in the way that works best.
Dr. Cam (29:53.956): Exactly. And going back to videos—many kids might not care about what they learn in school, but they’ll spend hours diving into YouTube, becoming experts in topics they care about. If they’re struggling in school, ask yourself: What are they interested in? Are they motivated there? If they are, your kid is already motivated.
JoAnn Schauf (30:30.54): Right. I had four kids, and they were all different. One of them really struggled in school. He’s a great kid—outgoing, friendly, with tons of friends—but grades were never his thing. But he was an amazing hockey player, and he loved it. He did well in hockey, so I let him play, no matter what his grades were. My other kids thought it wasn’t fair that he got to play, even when his grades weren’t perfect. But I always told them: “You need to do what you’re good at. Let's celebrate what you’re good at.” That helped my relationship with him because he knew I understood his struggles in school but also wanted to support his love for hockey. Parents should think about other ways to measure a child's success, beyond just grades.
Dr. Cam (31:47.802): I love that. We get so focused on grades, thinking they’re the only measure of success. But hockey has nothing to do with grades. Taking that away sends the message that anything else about them doesn’t matter. Plus, if they don’t have time for the things they love, they won’t have the energy or motivation to tackle the tough stuff, like schoolwork. I see this all the time—kids who enjoy nothing because it’s all work, and then they’re stressed and being yelled at to do their homework. It’s setting them up to fail.
JoAnn Schauf (32:39.48): No, I agree. When I was a kid, I hated being yelled at.
Dr. Cam (32:46.246): I still hate being yelled at. It’s just not fun.
JoAnn Schauf (32:50.51): It’s so disrespectful. That’s something I try to help parents understand—that their tone of voice matters. When you’re about to lecture your child because their room’s a mess and grandma’s coming over, they already know if you’re going to listen or lecture after the first couple of sentences. They can shut you out and look like they’re listening, but they’re really thinking about something else, like a new song or a YouTube video. If you want to make a difference, your tone can’t sound like a lecture or “I’m right, you’re wrong, and I’ll tell you why.” That’s my least favorite.
Dr. Cam (33:42.346): Right, because “I’m the parent.” But I think what’s hard is we perceive them not listening as disrespect, when really, they’re feeling disrespected and protecting themselves. It’s more about how we perceive it.
JoAnn Schauf (33:57.326): Exactly, Dr. Cam.
Dr. Cam (34:07.962): So, what are the top three things you want parents to take away from this episode?
JoAnn Schauf (34:13.004): First, I want them to understand the value of their child’s voice. Listen to understand them. Second, set up accountabilities for success. Let your child decide their grade goals, and then go over their grades together. Open that portal and hear the stories behind the numbers. Like, “Mrs. Perkins didn’t get the copies made, so they didn’t have to take that test.” You won’t get that from just opening the portal. And third, focus on your child’s strengths. For example, my daughter loved animals—dogs, cats, turtles—she was friends with them all. In seventh grade, I suggested she volunteer at a vet’s office. She wanted to be a vet, but after a few weeks, she fainted while watching a surgery. She knew she wasn’t cut out for being a vet. But it was a powerful learning experience. She could still volunteer in dog rescue, but now she knew her limits. Helping kids find their interests and honing their skills is really important.
Dr. Cam (36:24.302): When they’re moving toward something they’re passionate about, the motivation and drive are incredible. But if they’re dragging their heels, they’re probably not following their passion.
JoAnn Schauf (36:43.404): Exactly. Thank you so much for having me on today.
Dr. Cam (36:47.502): Thank you, JoAnn. I appreciate it.
JoAnn Schauf (36:50.956): I just want to mention that I have a book called Loving the Alien: How to Raise Your Tween. Every chapter starts with a story every parent will relate to, followed by strategies and skills to make life with your tween much more enjoyable.
Dr. Cam (37:14.426): That’s fantastic. I’ll put a link in the show notes so everyone can find it. Thank you again for joining us, JoAnn. It’s been a pleasure.
JoAnn Schauf (37:21.826): Thank you, it was my pleasure. Have a great day
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam
#parenting #tweens #academicmotivation #studyhabits

Essential Guide for Parents of 18-Year-Olds: Preparing for the Transition to Adulthood

Turning 18 is a significant milestone that brings up a whirlwind of emotions for both parents and teens. Parents often struggle with how much to loosen their grip, while teens may have unrealistic expectations of complete independence. In this episode, I’m joined by Joanna Lilley, a renowned Therapeutic Consultant and Wellness Gap Consultant, who specializes in guiding young adults through this critical transition.
Joanna shares valuable tips on how parents can prepare their teens for adulthood by teaching skills and responsibilities gradually, modeling the behavior they want to see, and creating opportunities for teens to practice independence. The episode also touches on the importance of letting go, trusting that your teen will figure things out, and how to approach the tough conversations about expectations. The key takeaway? Don't let the 18th birthday drive fear and worry—prepare ahead of time and have open, honest conversations with your teens.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How to prepare your teen for adulthood by gradually teaching essential skills
Why modeling behavior is critical for guiding your teen
The importance of creating opportunities for teens to practice independence
How to let go and trust that your teen will navigate challenges
Why open conversations about expectations are essential for a smooth transition
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Gradually teach teens skills and responsibilities to prepare them for adulthood.
Model the behavior you want to see in your teens.
Create opportunities for teens to practice independence.
Let go and trust that your teens will figure things out.
Have open conversations with teens about expectations.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫
🔔 Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Success Is Subjective Podcast: Listen here
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 - Teens Turning 18: A Significant Shift
06:13 - Preparing Teens for Adulthood
09:19 - Teaching Skills and Responsibilities
14:56 - Letting Go and Focusing on Self-Care
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Joanna Lilley
Website: www.lilleyconsulting.com
LinkedIn: Joanna Lilley
Facebook: Lilley Consulting LLC
YouTube: Lilley Consulting on YouTube
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam Hello parents, Dr. Cam here. Today we're tackling the significant shift when our kids turn 18. Teens are eager to embrace their independence. They're legal, right? But parents struggle with how much to loosen their grip, especially if they don't feel their teen is quite prepared yet to be an adult. So, it's a complex and challenging time to navigate. Joining us today is Joanna Lilley, a therapeutic consultant specializing in guiding young adults through this pivotal transition. Joanna is going to help us address our concerns about our teen's readiness for adult responsibilities and finding the right balance of support and freedom. Joanna, welcome to the show.
Joanna Lilley (00:42.074) Thanks for having me.
Joanna Lilley (00:50.202) Well, I’ll say this topic is pretty par for the course for me. What I enjoy about working with young adults is that they do have autonomy and agency, but there's still a significant level of dependence and skill building that's needed. I enjoy it because it’s the perfect storm of how do we collaborate in this transitional period of launching into adulthood?
Dr. Cam (01:21.555) I love that, and I agree. It’s such a difficult thing to navigate for both teens and parents. It's funny, though, because when I work with a lot of kids—most of them are around 16 or 17—they envision that once they turn 18, they're completely independent. They think parents won’t have a say in what they do, and they’re free. Parents, on the other hand, think it's no different than when they were 16 or 17. As long as they’re under our roof, everything we say goes. When this time comes, those two very different views fuel a lot of conflict. So, let’s first talk about the teen's perspective. Why are they suddenly saying, “I’m free”—except for food, shelter, and all the things they still need from their parents?
Joanna Lilley (02:18.778) I'm sure it has a lot to do with how they were parented and how involved their parents were in their lives. There needs to be balance. For young adults who feel like they were over-managed, they have this countdown until their 18th birthday, thinking, "Once I turn 18, I’m free!" But the reality is, as you said, they’re still very dependent on their parents. It’s a cognitive dissonance—their idea of independence versus the reality of needing support.
Dr. Cam (03:06.547) Right. They see the freedom, but not the responsibility that comes with it. So, now let’s look at the parent's perspective. Why are parents often reluctant to let go when their kids turn 18? Is 18, other than being legally the age of adulthood, something parents should be concerned about?
Joanna Lilley (03:36.794) There’s certainly a fear that once their child turns 18, parents will lose control or their advice will no longer matter. But the reality is, if they’re under your roof, if you’re providing food or paying for school, just because they’re 18 doesn’t mean you lose influence over what they’re involved with or how they’re cared for. As they launch into adulthood, there’s still a shift in parenting. Parents get very tunnel-visioned because they’ve been so involved in their child’s life. Then, when 18 hits, panic sets in. "Oh my gosh, I haven’t laid the foundation for everything they need before they turn 18." There’s a real fear that they don’t have the skills to survive in the real world. It also comes down to brain development—teens can make impulsive decisions. Parents worry about the choices their kids might make. It really depends on the parent-child dynamic, but most parents I work with are very involved, and when their child turns 18, they realize they may not have the skills to survive independently.
Dr. Cam (05:33.459) Yeah, exactly. So, how do we start preparing our teens? Let’s be real—our number one job as parents is to prepare our kids to be independent, not to keep them dependent on us. I see some parents still wanting their kids to be dependent, or getting frustrated that their kids are still dependent when they’re old enough. How do we start preparing them to be independent but still want us, not need us?
Joanna Lilley (06:12.954) I love the distinction between needing and wanting. We do want our kids to communicate with us, to call us and tell us what’s going on in their lives—not call us because they don’t know their social security number! There’s a lot of logistical information parents can start to infuse in their kids' lives. Things like scheduling doctor’s appointments, understanding insurance, medications, filling prescriptions, setting alarms, doing laundry. These are the basic skills they need to survive independently. We should start incorporating these into their high school years. If they’re not working, they can volunteer—teaching them consistency, routine, and responsibility. Just because they’re an adult doesn’t mean life is all sunshine and rainbows. In fact, adulting is often mundane and tedious. So, we need to take the shine off of adulthood and show them the real responsibilities that come with it. That way, when they turn 18, they won’t be let down by all the adult responsibilities that come with it.
Dr. Cam (07:55.603) Right, and I can already hear some of my clients saying, “I would love to teach them these things, but they don’t listen. They don’t want to help around the house, and it’s just a constant battle.” How do we start teaching responsibility and these life skills if they’re resistant?
Joanna Lilley (08:27.066) Such a great question. Well, first and foremost, keep listening to this podcast for tips on how to communicate better with your teen. There are also objective resources, like professionals, who can help—whether that’s putting a coach in front of your child or for you as a parent. It’s about learning the subtle differences in how to ask your teen to do things or how to invite them into these “boring” adulting tasks. We want to get them excited about it. If you communicate it as something that’s not just an obligation but a skill to help them become an adult, they might buy in more. And, honestly, there are professionals who can help you make those subtle adjustments in how you communicate. If your automatic response is that they’ll push back or refuse and it leads to an argument, then let’s shift that dynamic. The earlier you do this, the more prepared your teen will be by the time they turn 18. And as a parent, you’ll be in a better place with communication and your dynamic will feel more like a partnership. At that point, you’re not just parenting a child—you’re parenting an adult, and they’ll want to communicate with you, not because they need to, but because they want to.
Dr. Cam (10:20.275): Yeah, I think that's so important, and getting there can be a struggle. One of the obstacles I see with a lot of parents is that we get very laser-focused on what our teen is not doing or what they're doing, and we think they just need to change. I keep reiterating to everyone: if your teen is not listening to you, if they're not respecting you, if they're resistant to anything you have to say, it's not your teen's fault. It's on you as the parent to change the dynamic. It's not about them needing to change, it's about you needing to change if you want to have the relationship you want with your teenager. That’s a difficult thing for people to accept. I’d love for you to speak to that a little, because I think one of the biggest obstacles we face as parents is thinking that if we change, it feels like they now have all the control, and we're changing for them, which doesn’t feel good either. Can you speak to that?
Joanna Lilley (11:30.458): Yeah, I literally had a conversation about this just last week. Parents feel like they have no voice. There's a level of powerlessness that builds up over time, creating this dynamic where parents feel like they have no control over their 18-year-old. They're going to totally run the house. To answer your question, there are resources out there, like books or podcasts, that can help. But I think it's important to understand that having power as a parent doesn’t mean shifting to an authoritarian style of parenting. It's about knowing what’s in your control and what you can do for your child. It’s about inviting them to participate in the family system, rather than falling into the parent-child dynamic where the child feels picked on or targeted. Like you said, we often focus on the negative, and that creates a negative dynamic. Parents are frustrated, the teen is irritated, and everyone is just walking around angry. If parents can learn about power—where it comes from and how it can be a beautiful thing for a parent to maintain—it can invite consent for the child to show up and participate how they want to.
Dr. Cam (13:20.243): Right, we can’t force things like respect, trust, or gratitude. Trying to force those things actually undermines what we're trying to do. Instead, if you see something lacking in your teen, rather than demanding it from them, increase how you demonstrate those qualities in your interactions with them and others when they’re around. That's how they’re learning. So, how do we model this as they turn 18? How do we ensure they have the skills to be decent and competent human beings? I think those are the two main things we worry about—are they going to be kind and competent? How do we model that in a way they’ll pick up on?
Joanna Lilley (14:30.81): Well, it's not something that’s going to happen overnight. The earlier you can start leaning into this, the longer the runway you have to role model and for your child to observe and replicate. As far as being a decent human being, ideally, that apple falls close to the tree. If you’re a decent person, your child will likely follow suit. If you're angry all the time, that’s how your child will show up in the world. Parents need to focus on mindfulness, managing their anger, impatience, and how they respond to situations. The earlier you focus on that, the better. If your child can observe you handling emotions well, they'll learn self-awareness, which will help them bring joy and peace to the world rather than anger. In terms of independent skills, we need to teach those earlier. It’s about preparing them for the world.
Dr. Cam (16:15.027): When our kids become more independent, we often struggle with letting go. It’s not just about our kids; it’s also about us wondering, “Did I do enough? Did I prepare them?” So how do parents start to let go, especially when they've been holding on really tightly? How do we shift into letting them go when we fear what might happen if they rely on themselves?
Joanna Lilley (16:57.018): This is a hard one, but it’s something I share with all my parents. I tell them it’s not just about them turning 18—it’s about what happens if something happens to you. Can they step up and take care of themselves? It's a tough realization, but we need to set them up for independence. They might launch earlier or later, and that’s okay. I also want to point out that sometimes, even if you raise someone well, they might still make poor choices in your eyes. But those are their decisions, and you have to learn to accept that. To answer your question about letting go, parents who are very involved often feel like they’re running a full-time job—driving their kids, coordinating schedules. When the child leaves, there's suddenly free time, and parents wonder, “What do I do with all this time?” I actually encourage parents to start thinking about what interests them before their child turns 18. Find activities you’re passionate about so that when your child leaves, you already have something to focus on. Letting go is easier when you’re doing things that are fulfilling to you. You've spent 18-plus years caring for someone else, so now it’s your turn to focus on yourself and trust that you’ve prepared your child to take care of themselves once they're over the age of 18.
Dr. Cam (20:16.179): Yeah, I think that's so important, and I love that. I tell parents the same thing: Get your own life. This is exciting for you! It's time for you to find new things, and your teens will thank you for it. They always do. They’ll thank you for not having all your attention on them because that’s way too much pressure, and they don’t want it. But I think when we’re letting our teens go, it’s important to realize that they’re going to make mistakes—sometimes really big ones. There’s nothing we can do to prevent that. And it's okay because we make big mistakes all the time, right? The goal is for them to be able to make mistakes and think, I want to go talk to mom and dad about that, rather than Oh my God, I need to hide this from mom and dad because they’re going to be so pissed off.
Joanna Lilley (21:09.658): Yeah, I think the one thing I would add here is that it’s not just about parents going out and having fun for themselves. The lesson here is that your child will realize you’re not available 24/7 to help them. So, let’s say you're playing pickleball with friends and away from your phone for three hours, and your kid is blowing up your phone because they needed you during that time. Well, you weren’t there to soothe them or provide whatever information they needed, so they had to figure it out on their own. That’s a great life lesson for them. Hopefully, it wasn’t an emergency, but it teaches them how to self-soothe. If your number-one lifeline is no longer available to them, they have to figure it out, brainstorm, critically think. They’re learning how to be interdependent, not just dependent. It’s an important skill for young adults.
Dr. Cam (22:31.251): Yeah, I think that’s an essential message for parents. One thing I’ve noticed with my own daughter is that when I’m in the vicinity, she regresses into this little kid who depends on mommy. But when I remove myself from the situation, she handles it just fine. She doesn’t regress, and she steps up, feeling like the adult. There’s not only the idea of removing yourself so they need to figure it out, but also removing yourself so they don’t fall into that "mommy, you take care of it" mode, which is very instinctual to do, right? When they start succeeding and figuring things out on their own, that’s where their confidence and resilience build because now they know they can handle it. That’s so cool.
What else do we need to know as parents of kids who are becoming of age and legal? Where does our responsibility start to shift, and where does it stop at this point?
Joanna Lilley (23:45.178): I think the priority area where I still see a lot of parental involvement is with insurance. Since many insurance policies allow young adults to stay on their parent’s insurance until age 26, there’s an extended period of care that just exists. Does that mean every 18-year-old should wait until they’re 26 to find a full-time job? Absolutely not. But that lifeline exists. I see parents having a hard time letting go of this. For example, in medical care, mental health care, or anything covered under insurance, I see parents really struggling to let go. But everything else depends on the family situation. It depends on the parents, the young adult, where they are geographically, and culturally what the family believes an 18-year-old should be doing—whether it’s living at home, going to college, or working full-time. That varies. But the one thing I see parents really holding onto, no pun intended, is insurance.
Dr. Cam (25:05.299): Yeah, that’s a big one. It’s tough when you’re paying for it, and you don’t want them making decisions that will increase costs. But maybe that becomes a consequence instead—if they make decisions that increase the costs, they’ll have to cover the difference. It’s hard because we often have this clear vision of what our kids should or shouldn’t be doing, and we try to control that, but it’s not ours to control. That’s really difficult for us to accept. They are completely different human beings with their own path. I always ask parents, How would you feel if your parents were still telling you daily what you should or shouldn’t do? We wouldn’t like it. At all.
Joanna Lilley (25:55.994): Hahaha
Dr. Cam (26:01.619): Alright, what’s one big takeaway you want parents to have from this episode, Joanna?
Joanna Lilley (26:09.306): The biggest takeaway is to not let the 18th birthday drive fear and worry. It’s just a date. Let it come, let it go, but prepare ahead of time so that date doesn’t create animosity or fear. Don’t give space to it.
Dr. Cam (26:38.611): I love that. And I think adding to that, it’s important to talk to your teen about their expectations when they turn 18 to see if you’re on the same page. That way, you can get to that stage together instead of both landing there and thinking, We are so far apart right now.
How can people find you, Joanna?
Joanna Lilley (27:03.546): The best way is on my website, www.lillyconsulting.com. You can also check me out as a host on the podcast, Success is Subjective.
Dr. Cam (27:14.931): I love it. I was on it—great podcast. Joanna, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you.
Joanna Lilley (27:23.162): Thanks again for having me!
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam #TeensTurning18

The Balancing Act: Nurturing Teens While Letting Go with Esther Joy Goetz

Parenting teens is a tricky balancing act—nurturing your child while letting them go. Every parent hopes their teen grows into a confident, capable adult who makes good choices and chases their dreams. But there's always the fear of them making big mistakes or getting hurt along the way. Esther Joy Goetz, author, speaker, and the force behind the popular Moms of Bigs social media community, is here to help us navigate this challenge. 
Esther's insights will empower you to find that balance between nurturing and letting go, while focusing on long-term, healthy relationships with your teens. She’ll also share what inspired her to create the Moms of Bigs community—a lifeline for moms of teens and young adults who are facing similar struggles.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE• How to create a safe space that allows your teen to explore their individuality• Why healthy boundaries are key to building trust and respect• How to balance nurturing with letting go while maintaining a strong connection• Tips for connecting with your teen without expectations or pressure
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Creating a Safe Space – Give your teen the freedom to grow into themselves by providing a space where they can explore and make mistakes.
Healthy Boundaries are Essential – Establish boundaries that allow both you and your teen to feel respected, loved, and valued without overstepping.
Trust Without Expectations – Focus on connecting with your teen in an authentic way, free from strings or expectations, to build trust and open communication.
Respect in the Parent-Teen Relationship – Modeling respect, being seen, heard, and valued are vital for a thriving parent-child dynamic.
Long-Term Relationship Building – It's not just about today. Building a lasting, healthy relationship with your teen is key for their emotional growth and your connection as they become adults.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Esther’s eBook: Moms Never Stop Momming (Get 20% off when you sign up for her newsletter!)
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction and Inspiration for Moms of Bigs
05:34 Navigating the Balance Between Nurturing and Letting Go
09:03 The Fear of Letting Go and Loss of Control
13:06 Creating a Safe Space and Setting Healthy Boundaries
23:12 Being the Bad Guy and Building Trust
28:41 Key Takeaways and Action Steps
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Esther Joy Goetz
Website: Moms of Bigs
Instagram: @momsofbigs
Facebook: @momsofbigs
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:01.297) Hello parents, Dr. Cam here. As parents, we hope our kids grow up confident and capable. We want them to make good choices and chase their dreams, but we’re also worried they’ll make big mistakes or even get hurt. That’s why I’m so excited to have Esther Joy Goetz here today. Esther is an author, speaker, and the force behind the popular Moms of Bigs social media community. She’s here to help us find that balance between nurturing our teens and letting them go. Esther, welcome to the show.
Esther Joy Goetz (00:32.526) Thank you. I’m so excited to be here. And just when you said that, I thought, hmm, that’s the tricky tightrope of parenting teens.
Dr. Cam (00:42.353) It really, really is. Let’s start with a quick backstory. What inspired you to launch Moms of Bigs?
Esther Joy Goetz (00:52.942) Well, my daughter said to me, “Mom, you need to...” She’s so funny; she thinks that I have some wisdom. What really happened was, when she graduated high school, she said, “Mom, there are so many people out there that really don’t know how to do the mom gig well, especially moms of teens.” How can they know? I thought, well, I don’t know if I’m the answer to that, but I had two older friends who guided me along and continue to guide me. I realized there was nothing out there on social media for this stage—nothing. I couldn’t find a thing. I thought, “Why don’t I give out what I actually need?”
A lot of times, our passion is born from what we needed. There’s plenty of advice on breastfeeding and how to handle toddlers, but once they hit the teen years, it’s sparse. Or it feels very formulaic—“Do these three things, and you’ll have a magic relationship with your teen.” I was like, “Yeah, I know.” I felt like my teens were some of my greatest teachers, and that’s the posture I wanted to take. Plus, all the mom emotions. You mentioned the big one—fear. No one was really talking about what to do with those emotions in the meantime. That’s really where I focused—on those motherhood emotions.
Dr. Cam (03:03.665) I think that’s so important. I was finding the same thing. When parents are new, it feels comfortable to ask for advice. You go to a baby shower and people offer advice. But once you have teens, you feel like you should know, but it’s a whole new skill set. Plus, a whole new emotional package we don’t even know how to deal with. Fear and worry, I think, are two of the biggest ones. Is that what you’re seeing as well? Guilt—my goodness.
Esther Joy Goetz (03:41.07) Guilt, fear, worry—and I think grief and sadness. Those are the three uncomfortable emotions. We have more comfortable ones too, like joy—watching them become their own people, having exciting conversations, and celebrating things like their sports achievements or academic success. But the uncomfortable emotions, like the letting-go process and anticipatory grief, come into play a lot. And I think with fear, it’s the loss of control.
When they’re young, you think you can control them. But once they hit the teen years, the illusion of control disappears. You’re left with fear and worry.
Dr. Cam (04:49.521) Yeah, I see this now with parents, especially with technology—GPS, tracking apps, all these things. Parents send their kids off to high school or college, but they’re still micromanaging, tracking everything. It’s all driven by fear and worry. How do we make sure our kids have the freedom they need? Because I think that’s where the biggest conflict comes from—parents holding on too tight. How do we navigate the balance between keeping them safe and giving them the freedom to experience life?
Esther Joy Goetz (05:34.798) The good news is we don’t have to give blanket freedom immediately. We’ve been giving them little bits of freedom all along. When you experience that pushback, there needs to be a conversation with your child. Communication is key during the teenage years. They need to be part of the conversation, and they have a massive voice in their own life.
My tagline is giving our kids the roots of unconditional love and the wings of freedom to be completely themselves. And the safety aspect—it’s something we have to come to grips with. Can we keep them “safe”? What does that even mean? You can keep them physically safe, but they could still be emotionally crippled. If we focus only on physical safety, we emotionally stunt them. My kids have told me this: “You’re emotionally stunting me. I can’t even make a mistake or figure out what I like or don’t like.”
There are different kinds of safety we’re talking about here. My job is to be a safe space for them.
Dr. Cam (07:23.825) What does that mean?
Esther Joy Goetz (07:26.158) My job as a mom is to create a safe space. That means I create a physically safe home—no abuse, no bullying, no judgment. There’s empathy. It’s a place of unconditional love, no strings attached. That’s the “roots of unconditional love.”
If I’m a safe space, I’m creating a soft place for them to land. But there’s also that idea I love where it says, “Ships are not made to stay in the harbor. Ships are made to go out—sometimes into beautiful waters, sometimes into treacherous ones. But the design of the ship is to manage all of that. They’re not designed to stay safe in the harbor.”
 
Dr. Cam (08:35.505) Right. They wouldn't have much of a life if their job is to make sure we feel that they're safe. If their job is to protect us from our fear and worry, that stunts them. I see that a lot without parents realizing it. The kids push back really hard, and parents see that as disrespect when, in truth, the parents aren't really respecting the kids' individuality. That's a tough one.
Esther Joy Goetz (09:05.838) You said something key there: we are responsible for our own emotions. They are not responsible for ours. One of the interesting things that happened with my son, a senior, was that he didn’t want a curfew. I said to him, "Look, I'm afraid when you're out past midnight. I own that—you're not responsible for that, but I have to get up and go to work." Part of living here means this is going to be a conversation we have back and forth. It's about respecting me and the stage I’m in—I'm not there yet. I haven’t fully let go and allowed you to just run around the world. I want you to know the emotions I'm experiencing—you're not responsible for those, but I'm dealing with them myself, in fits and starts. For now, when you're in high school, we’d like you to come home by midnight. If there are any issues surrounding that, just communicate with us the same way I would if I wasn’t going to show up when I said I would. So we navigated my emotions and their freedom at the same time, but I never said, “You are responsible for me not being afraid."
Dr. Cam (10:28.593) Yeah, and I don't think we even say it. I think we just assume it or do it. We make decisions and choices without realizing it, to protect our own fear, not thinking about the bigger picture and how that impacts our kids. Now, there are two extremes I see a lot. There are people who say, "Are we just supposed to let them do whatever they want?"
Esther Joy Goetz (10:29.294) Never.
Dr. Cam (10:55.825) And not guide them at all? Then I hear others say, “We’re being too soft on our kids, and that’s the problem with kids today.” I hear that all the time. So, when people say, “Do we just let them do whatever they want?” What do you have to say to that?
Esther Joy Goetz (11:16.462) We had a conversation about boundaries, healthy boundaries in the house. There were things related to chores, finances, and respecting the fact that I have emotions, but respect goes both ways. I respect the pushback. The most fun experience I had was with my daughter, my oldest. She is super compliant—she came out wanting to please us. That’s just who she was. She didn’t do much of the pushback. She’s naturally empathetic—always asking, "How’s mommy feeling?" I remember her coming to me her senior year and saying, "Hey, our entire senior class is going to midnight movies, and I’m going to go, no matter what you say." I literally thought, “Come over here and high-five me right now!” I was so happy that she was doing the normal pushback.
So, you’re going to have all kinds of kids. Some will push back on everything you say, and it’s exhausting. Others will naturally want to please you. Then there’s everything in between. These constant conversations about what they really need versus what you need are important. We’re all allowed to have needs in a home. No, letting them do whatever they want is not healthy. Healthy boundaries are where I can love you and myself simultaneously. You don’t just get to be a slob and leave dishes everywhere in the common area. But guess what? I’ll never come into your room.
We have common space that everyone must respect. But your room, or section of the room—if you share with a sibling—is your responsibility. We had two boys who shared a room, and they had their own sections they couldn’t invade. It's not about all-or-nothing thinking. That’s devastating for parenting teens.
Dr. Cam (13:29.809) Yeah, it definitely gets that pushback. Then there are people who say, “This is what's wrong with kids today. Parents are too open to listening to them, giving them a voice. We need to be parents and just tell them what it is.” I see a lot of pushback on social media, particularly from parents who believe that parents need to be more authoritative. They think that’s why kids are the way they are today.
Esther Joy Goetz (13:59.022) And friends less, I hear that too. Again, it goes back to all-or-nothing thinking. It’s either this or that. I would say one of the most important attributes we need is wisdom. It’s not going to be all this or all that, and it’s not going to be the same for every kid. There has to be some of both. I always say the “both-and” is much more important than the “either-or.”
We can have guidance and freedom. I can give unconditional love, with no strings attached, and I can also give them the wings of freedom. Freedom means no control. You can't have love and control. If you're trying to regulate your own fear, there’s a little voice inside saying, “Listen, you’re trying to regulate yourself by controlling them.” That’s different from, “Hey, this is a common space, and I’m not okay with this. I live here too, and the dishes can’t be left everywhere. I’m not cleaning up after you. You take care of your stuff, and I’ll never be on your back.”
But I also have to take care of myself and my stuff. I don't just get to go into your room and throw my things around. I wouldn’t throw my stuff in your head either.
Dr. Cam (15:38.513) I like that. Go a little deeper into what you mean by that.
Esther Joy Goetz (15:43.79) Yeah. There’s a sacred space, and kids are going through something Carl Jung calls "individuation." They’re trying to become themselves. We’re there to be ourselves, too. We can share our individuated selves, our healed selves, our whole selves with them. This is the ideal, of course.
That means we get to share our hopes, our dreams, and our interests. Maybe they’ll try on some of our hats and say, "Wow, I really like the Pittsburgh Steelers, because Dad shared his love for the Steelers." Or, "I like how Mom keeps everything organized. I want to do that in my room." But we don’t belong in their heads, telling them who to be, what to love, or who to love. That’s not ours to own. Their minds and hearts are theirs to figure out.
It doesn’t mean I can’t try on some of their hats, too. They’ve taught me so much. I never knew I loved a certain band, and then they showed it to me, and I thought, “Wow, this is great!” But they didn’t force me to listen to it all day long in the car. It’s about permission to explore together. I just love that.
Dr. Cam (17:18.097) Yeah, I think it’s so important. It’s very hard for parents to know where those boundaries are. I see a lot of overstepping into our teens’ boundaries, which is where the pushback, disrespect, and even dislike often come from. They feel violated when we try to change how they think and what they believe. It’s tough to separate what we’re doing to guide them as their parent—teaching them good manners, ethics, morals, and making good choices—and where it becomes overbearing, when we’re telling them what to do. How do we know when we’re stepping over that boundary?
Esther Joy Goetz (18:10.03) Right, and we are.
Yeah, the whole “should” word. I think we all have pushback against the word “should,” right? Our generation especially. We had that major pushback against the “shoulds.” It was like a stranglehold on us. We don’t want to raise our kids in a way where they have to heal from the “shoulds.” We want to provide an environment where the “shoulds” are off the table. There are certain moral ethics we abide by, of course—things like kindness, compassion, and justice. But I would say that happens by modeling. You want your kids to learn how to be respectful? Respect them.
A couple of Christmases ago, or maybe it was New Year’s Day, we asked our kids, “What do you think our three major takeaways were for you guys?” Believe it or not, they all had different answers based on their personal relationships with us, but all four of them said “respect.” We asked, “Why respect?” And they said, “Because from the time we were taught, all the way through, even as teens, you always respected us.” We didn’t even realize we were doing it. They felt like they always had a voice in vacations, that we listened to them. Of course, it wasn’t perfect, and I’ve had major mom fails still. But still, I love that. There’s that modeling piece. We just showed them respect and talked about it when they felt disrespected—by a coach, a teacher, a sibling, or even us. They were always allowed to tell us how they felt.
And we were there to listen, like, “Yeah, what made you feel disrespected? That doesn’t seem respectful for that teacher to talk to you like that. You don’t have to be treated that way.” It’s interesting, they always respected people who respected them.
Dr. Cam (19:29.745) We won’t tell which one you forgot about for a second.
Esther Joy Goetz (19:43.182) Right! They felt respected, even when we made tough decisions. Modeling it is key. You don’t learn integrity by talking about it. Kids learn integrity by seeing you do what you say. If you say you’ll pick them up at 8:00, and you do, that’s integrity. It’s more caught than taught, and that’s a lot of work on us as parents.
Dr. Cam (21:07.921) Yeah, absolutely. So if you're seeing something in your teen that concerns you, instead of trying to push them to change it, step back and think, “How can I change the way I’m showing up to model that better?”
Esther Joy Goetz (21:26.862) Right. Like you said earlier—parents need to be parents, but these kids today have taught me more than anyone in my life. It’s about being both a learner and a teacher. It’s not about authoritarian parenting. It’s not top-down.
Dr. Cam (21:29.329) That’s a big one.
Esther Joy Goetz (21:56.494) It’s about being side by side, where you have a voice, and I have a voice. We’re all in this together, learning and teaching from each other. But there are times when you have to be a parent. For example, if you’ve been on a family vacation and the last time we did this, you had a huge rager at our house—guess what? The house is locked. If you don’t want to come, we’re changing the garage code. You’re not welcome in the home we’re paying for. Sometimes you’re a parent, sometimes you’re a friend.
Dr. Cam (22:44.273) Right. I always find it interesting when people say we need to parent, they often mean we need to discipline, punish, and be the “bad guy.” I don’t know when parenting became equivalent to being the bad guy, because I’ve been a parent for 18 years, and I’ve never had to be the bad guy. I’ve had to say no, I’ve had to make tough decisions, but I’ve never been the bad guy. Why do we associate parenting with being the bad guy?
Esther Joy Goetz (23:01.838) I hate that, too.
Dr. Cam (23:12.305) Yeah, it’s puzzling.
Esther Joy Goetz (23:22.158) You just hit on a key word—connection. Brene Brown says, “Connection is the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued, when they can give and receive without judgment, and when they derive sustenance and strength from the relationship.” My goal is to have a long-term, healthy relationship with my kids—one based on connection, not fear, guilt, or shame.
If I keep that long-term goal in mind, I think about it like a crockpot, not a microwave.
Dr. Cam (24:18.033) I love it. That’s great.
Esther Joy Goetz (24:23.118) In those moments when I say no, the key isn’t the no. It’s the feeling of being seen, heard, and valued. When they feel that, they’re more likely to come to the same decision on their own. And even if they don’t agree with the decision, if they feel heard and respected, the no is easier to accept. So, long-term healthy relationships are what matter, and that won’t change as they leave the teen years. Eventually, you’re navigating adult-to-adult relationships. It’s all a learning process, and that’s okay.
Dr. Cam (25:15.697) It changes everything again. Yeah.
Esther Joy Goetz (25:23.278) If you keep that crockpot, not microwave mindset in your head, it really helps in those tough decisions—like when they want to go to a party, or they’re asking for the pill, or when they say they don’t want to go to church anymore. In those moments, you have to ask yourself, “Is this crockpot or microwave thinking?”
Think about your relationship with your parents.
Dr. Cam (25:54.385) Exactly. It’s funny because we often think it should be different for us and our kids, but really it’s not. When you have a connection, there’s a difference between not liking the decision and not liking you. When there’s no connection, anything negative becomes a reflection of their feelings toward us.
Esther Joy Goetz (25:59.534) When we have that connection, and there’s a difficult decision, they don’t trust the decision, they trust us. They might not like it, but they feel heard and respected, and that makes all the difference. That’s the real test of connection.
I also think parents should say yes as much as possible. Listen, hear them out, and say yes when you can. If you say yes more often, the no’s are easier to handle because they know you’re not just trying to control everything. When they ask if they can do something, instead of immediately saying no, I used to say, “When you’ve figured everything out, come back and we’ll talk about it.” And most of the time, their plans fell through anyway.
Dr. Cam (27:58.385) Yeah, and if your plan involves me, let me know, so I have a chance to say yes or no. I say yes to almost anything unless there’s a really big reason not to. I want my daughter to live her best life, and I don’t want to hold her back. It’s wonderful to see.
So, what’s the one thing you want parents to take away from today’s conversation? What’s the most important point?
Esther Joy Goetz (28:41.806) For me, it’s the crockpot, not microwave mindset. Long-term, healthy relationships are built step by step. When you make tough decisions, deal with your own fear in the moment so you can make wise decisions with your teen. Those little decisions accumulate over time, like a lovely meal at the end. This is a lifetime journey.
There are a million ways people try to control their kids, but ultimately, we’re in this for the long haul.
Dr. Cam (29:34.193) Yeah, exactly. I still know a lot of people my age who are complaining about their parents' control over them. I'm like, that's not a healthy relationship.
Esther Joy Goetz (29:41.454) Controlling... yeah, no, not a healthy relationship. So, think Crockpot, not microwave—that’s my one takeaway.
Dr. Cam (29:49.585) I love it. And what is one action item parents can do right after they listen to this episode?
Esther Joy Goetz (29:55.118) I would say find one way to connect with your kid without any strings attached. Don’t connect with them just so you can get something from them. Just connect. Write a note on their mirror reminding them that you're their biggest fan. My one son, every morning, I’d say, “Remember, I’m your biggest fan,” as he walked out to school. And even now, in his 20s, he says, “You know what, Mom? You’re my biggest fan.” And I’m like, yes.
It’s simple, just connecting without any agenda. If what I said about the “self-stuff” resonated with you, have a conversation. Tell them, “I heard this podcast today, and they said this and this. I was just wondering what you thought about it.” My favorite way to connect is sending random notes—texts, TikToks, whatever I can do—to say one thing I’m thankful for, whether it's about them, something they’ve done lately, or how they’ve made me feel. Not tied to anything specific. Not, “Thank you for the flowers on Mother’s Day,” just, “Thank you for being you.” That’s just one way to connect without any strings attached, without any “mom agenda.”
Dr. Cam (31:23.697) That means not getting mad if they don’t respond back. If you get mad that they didn’t respond, that shows strings.
Esther Joy Goetz (31:32.494) Exactly. No strings, one-way connection.
Dr. Cam (31:36.849) Yeah, that’s a hard one for a lot of parents because they think, “I do all this. I deserve this.” But it’s not your kid’s responsibility. It just isn’t. And when you keep doing it enough and building that connection, you get a lot of it in return. My daughter tells me every day, “You’re my biggest fan.” So it goes both ways, but it takes constant building and trust.
Esther Joy Goetz (31:57.912) Yes, exactly.
Dr. Cam (32:06.446) Esther, how can people find you?
Esther Joy Goetz (32:06.446) I’m on Instagram and Facebook as @MomsOfBiggs. My website is EstherJoyGoetz.com/moms-of-biggs, where I have all my resources. It’s a catch-all for everything I do, but you’ll find "Moms of Biggs" in the menu. I’ve written a book called Moms Never Stop Momming with a co-author. We also have a collaborative book coming out in the fall called Moms Never Stop Worrying and Being Brave at the Same Time, releasing in the fall of 2024. I also have a program called Roots and Wings for moms whose kids are transitioning to college, and it’s available for sale right now.
Dr. Cam (32:47.761) Excellent, we will put links everywhere in the show notes so people can find all of that. Esther, thank you so much for joining us today. This was fun.
Esther Joy Goetz (32:54.126) Thank you!
 
ABOUT THE SHOWThe Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam
#ParentingTeens #MomsOfBigs #Teenagers

Teen Hygiene SOS: Expert Skincare Tips for Teens from a Pediatric Dermatologist

Is your bathroom a battleground when it comes to your teenager’s hygiene? On one hand, we struggle to get our teen sons to simply wash their face, while on the other, we grapple with curbing our daughters’ complex beauty routines (seriously, are all those serums necessary?). That's why I’m thrilled to have Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness with us today!
Dr. Maguiness is a double board-certified pediatric dermatologist, a mom of two tween boys (so she gets it firsthand), and the co-founder of Stryke Club, a personal care and hygiene brand designed specifically for boys. Dr. Maguiness is here to help us navigate the often confusing and challenging world of teenage hygiene, giving us the tools to support our teens’ skincare routines and foster healthy habits.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How teenagers' independence and busy schedules impact their hygiene habits
The essentials of a simple yet effective skincare routine for both boys and girls
Why parents should model skincare habits to help their teens adopt healthy habits
The truth about overcomplicating teen skincare, and how to simplify routines • How to use pimple patches to promote healing and prevent acne picking
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Teenagers often resist hygiene routines due to their desire for independence and packed schedules, so finding a balance is key.
Modeling good skincare habits and offering the right products is one of the most effective ways to help your teen maintain their hygiene.
For boys, a basic skincare routine involving a gentle cleanser, moisturizer, and sunscreen is all they need to keep their skin healthy.
For girls, it's important to avoid overcomplicating skincare—keep it simple with a gentle cleanser, moisturizer, and sunscreen.
Pimple patches can help teens avoid picking at their acne, promote healing, and are a helpful addition to any skincare routine.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫
🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
FREE Guide: Dr. Cam’s 10 Pro Tips for Raising Teens
Stryke Club: Skin Care for Teens
Basic Skin Care Products for Teens:
Gentle cleanser (fragrance-free, hypoallergenic) like Cetaphil Face Wash
Facial Moisturizer (fragrance-free hypoallergenic, non-comedogenic) like Neutrogena Fragrance Free Daily Facial Moisturizer
Sunscreen (SPF 30 or greater)
Cleansing Wipes like Stryke Club’s Wipe Out
Extra Products That Won’t Harm Sensitive Teen Skin:
Hyaluronic Acid Serum like Cerave
Hypochlorous Acid Spray like Tower 28 SOS Daily Rescue Facial Spray for Sensitive Skin
Acne Skin Care Products:
Adapalene Treatment like Differin Acne Treatment Gel
Benzoyl Peroxide Acne Treatment Medication like Neutrogena Rapid Clear Stubborn Acne Spot
Hypochlorite-based cleanser like CeraVe Hydrating Facial Cleanser
Hydrochlorite patches like Mighty Patch™
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction and Background
02:53 Teenage Hygiene and Self-Care
08:21 Gender Differences in Skincare
14:41 Simplifying Skincare for Boys
25:21 The Benefits of Pimple Patches
29:47 Destigmatizing Skincare for Teens
 
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness
Website: Stryke Club
Instagram: @strykclub
Facebook: Stryke Club
Twitter: @DrSheilaghMD
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam (00:02.71) Hello parents, Dr. Cam here. Is your bathroom a battleground when it comes to your teenager's hygiene? On one hand, we struggle to get our teen sons to simply wash their face, while on the other, we grapple with curbing our daughters' complex beauty routines. Like seriously, are all those serums necessary? That's why I'm thrilled to have Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness with us today. Dr. Maguiness is a double board-certified pediatric dermatologist, a mom of two tween boys, so she understands the struggles firsthand, and the co-founder of Strike Club, a personal care and hygiene brand designed specifically for boys. Dr. Maguiness is here to help us navigate the often confusing and challenging world of teenage hygiene. Dr. Maguiness, welcome to the show.
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (00:48.077) Thank you for having me, Dr. Cam. We have a lot to talk about today.
Dr. Cam (00:51.254) We do. So, I want to first get into the background. What inspired you to specialize in pediatric dermatology?
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (01:01.853) I always knew that I wanted to work with children. I'm actually Canadian. I grew up in Toronto. When I was in medical school, I was fascinated with dermatology, pursued it, but knew kids were where it was at for me. I found a mentor in pediatric dermatology, which led me to San Francisco to do a fellowship at UCSF.
Then, I met my partner, and now we're in Minneapolis, where I have a large academic practice at the University of Minnesota. But yes, the skin of kids, I mean, what could be better? Baby skin all day, but not to discount the teens, because I love my adolescent patients too.
Dr. Cam (01:46.422) Talk about skin issues. That's when it all goes awry, isn't it?
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (01:52.589) It is. All those surging hormones are changing everything, but the skin isn't quite fully mature yet. There’s lots to discuss, and it's a great conversation to have with your teen about hygiene and self-care to get those habits going early.
Dr. Cam (02:10.678) I want to talk about this because you have two tween boys. You're in the thick of it. Why do they not like hygiene? I’m brushing with broad strokes here, but really, why?
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (02:21.677) My goodness. Teens are busy. They’re figuring things out and really want to assert their independence. Something you probably see a lot. Up until the age of six or even seven, it’s the parents telling them to take a bath, and helping them do it. The parents have control over the bathing routine. But suddenly, in those tween years, your child might skip a day or two because they have practice or are busy. Then, you say, "You need to take a shower tonight."
But then, your child disappears into the bathroom, and you wonder, are they really clean? What’s happening in there? We don’t know. And that’s the case for all tweens and teens. There’s just this general desire for independence.
But something interesting is happening. If you’ve been following the news lately, you’ll know that there's a growing trend where girls and boys are doing different things when it comes to skincare, hygiene, and self-care. I think these are topics we can really dig into today.
Dr. Cam (03:41.238) Yeah, I mean, teens... what I see, and again, I don’t want to stereotype, but I see this so frequently that I feel comfortable generalizing. Parents come in frustrated because they have to nag their sons to brush their teeth, wash their face, take a shower. They smell, and the only thing they do is spray body spray all over themselves, thinking that’s cleaning. So now we have sweat mixed with Axe body spray, and... then their skin starts to break out. I know there’s a push for independence, but there's also this battle between parents trying to help their kids stay clean and not smell ripe, and the kids just...
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (04:14.605) And then a rash will start for sure.
Dr. Cam (04:35.51) It’s almost like they fight back about it. Can you help us understand that a little better and how we can encourage them to stay clean?
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (04:45.837) I don’t think you’re stereotyping at all. This is something not only parents are noticing, but I’ve noticed it too in my own clinical practice. When kids come in with skin problems, and often it’s acne, the girls tend to be more compliant with treatments than the boys. So let’s unpack that a little bit.
What’s happening here? Well, let’s think about your own home and what’s being modeled. A lot of times, it’s the moms who have their own skincare routines—cleansers, moisturizers, makeup, grooming. There’s a lot of modeling that moms do regarding self-care, which kids, both boys and girls, pick up on.
But the girls, in particular, see this and start to understand it’s a normal, accepted behavior to care for your skin and hygiene. On the other hand, boys see their moms engaging in these self-care practices, but they may not see the same from their dads. There's a gap in what’s modeled for girls versus boys.
I think it’s a great opportunity for parents to step in and open a discussion about hygiene and self-care for boys. We need to give them the tools they need and show them what to do. There’s been some stigma surrounding boys and hygiene, like they’re just supposed to know how to take care of themselves. But if you step back, girls are seeing this modeled by their moms. Maybe moms and dads haven’t had that same conversation with their sons. That’s how I’ve been thinking about it in the last few years, as I’ve seen these trends emerging.
Dr. Cam (07:09.046) It makes so much sense. I mean, even just thinking about TikTok, you know, there are tons of TikTok creators showing makeup and skincare routines for girls. But I’ve never seen a single one for boys. That’s just not out there.
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (07:25.581) Not really. There are some trends coming out, especially around fragrance. You mentioned Axe body spray. There’s this “smell maxing” trend, where boys really want to smell good and buy fancy colognes. But it’s a bit different from what we’re talking about.
I do think there’s interest. This is the selfie generation—the kids who grew up with social media, digital cameras everywhere, and phones in their pockets. So, on one hand, there’s all this content being created and consumed by girls. But the same doesn’t really exist for boys. They’re more interested than ever before, but there’s still something missing.
If you're a mom of teens, just go to your local retailer—whether it's Walmart or Target. Walk down the aisle, and what you’ll see is a sea of products marketed and packaged to appeal to young girls. They’re pink, orange, fruity, with scrubs and multiple steps. But when you look for something for your son, there’s much less. You’ll find products in the clinical aisle—dermatologist-recommended, clinical, or medicinal. Or worse, it’s like the OxyPads we had in the ‘80s and ‘90s. We’re a little behind the times, right?
So, that’s what we’re seeing in the retail world and on social media, and our kids are responding accordingly.
Dr. Cam (09:18.422) Yeah, it’s just not as cool for guys, and it's really important for girls. Now, help us understand what the bare minimum is for keeping our sons from getting acne and not smelling awful.
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (09:39.309) Yes, I love this because we need to address it for all teens. Parents often ask me, “What’s the basic, healthy skincare regimen for a tween or teen?” So, let's break that down. This is for everyone—boys, girls, and even me.
Dr. Cam (09:56.214) Good, then we’ll talk about the overkill next.
Dr. Sheilagh Maguiness (10:00.941) We can definitely touch on that, but at the very least, a tween needs to start washing their face. Studies show that just washing your face, removing dirt and debris once or twice daily, will help with complexion, breakouts, and acne. It removes oil and improves skin clarity. A gentle cleanser is a great start—fragrance-free, hypoallergenic, something that doesn’t strip or over-dry.
We’re not talking about products with beads, scrubs, or charcoal—those aren’t necessary. Just a gentle cleanser, 100%. Then, at nighttime, if needed, a moisturizer. If their skin’s a little dry after cleansing, a light moisturizer is great.
Again, I prefer products that are gentle. There aren’t many products formulated specifically for teen skin, but most can use a fragrance-free, hypoallergenic, non-comedogenic (non-acnegenic) moisturizer.
And always use sunscreen. It’s never too young to start using it. In the morning, an SPF 30 or greater is a great addition to their routine. That’s it. Those three things—the basics—are really all any teen needs for a healthy skincare routine.
Dr. Cam (12:12.182) I love that, and I think if we sit in there even a few times and do it with them and walk them through it—because they're not going to look at you and say, "I know what to do." They don’t. So I think it’s about walking through it, and if Dad can do it, that's great, right?
Sheilagh Maguiness (12:22.157) No, I had a funny story. My son went upstairs, very proud of himself, and said, "Mom, I used all the things you said." But he left it on—didn’t wash it off. He’s seen me do this multiple times! So yes, if you model it and show them how to do it, they’ll be more successful in following through on the steps.
It’s quite funny, especially with boys. If you don’t ask them, "Hey, did you just take a shower? Your hair doesn’t seem to have been washed," you might be surprised to find out they haven’t washed their hair or they’re using the shampoo head to toe, all over their face. That can be really irritating. You just don’t know what they’re doing. So ask the questions, make it fun, and talk about it in an encouraging, inquisitive way. It’s a nice opportunity to connect with your tween or teen, I think.
Dr. Cam (13:27.062) Right, laughing at or shaming them or saying, "That’s so silly," is embarrassing to them because they’re learning.
Sheilagh Maguiness (13:32.173) Exactly. It's really embarrassing for them. For boys, they may think that a skincare regimen is embarrassing. But we have to remove that. We need to do a better job, both in our homes and in society, of destigmatizing self-care and embracing it. Celebrating it. Because what's better than a 12-year-old who brushes their teeth, washes their face, and uses sunscreen? That’s amazing! You’re establishing habits that will serve them for the rest of their life. It’s an amazing thing.
Dr. Cam (14:07.766) Yeah, and I think making it super easy and clear will help reduce some of that nagging. We nag because they go in there not even knowing what to do sometimes. They don’t want to do it, and if it’s too complicated, they won’t do it.
Sheilagh Maguiness (14:24.941) Yes, keeping it basic at the beginning is key. You just need a daily shower or bath, a face cleanser, body cleanser, moisturizer, and sunscreen. That’s it. You're done.
Dr. Cam (14:40.822) You’re done! So, let's talk about the other extreme. We’ve got the Sephora kids—the Sephora girls. I mean, I have a teen daughter, and she’s the one now teaching me what to use. My skincare routine is so much better now that I have a teenager telling me what I’m supposed to do, because she was right. She knows all the brands. Now, we’ve got girls—12 years old—with tons of serums, lotions, all this stuff.
Sheilagh Maguiness (14:44.301) Ha ha. 100%.
Dr. Cam (15:11.574) Do they need it? Is it okay or good for them to be using all that stuff?
Sheilagh Maguiness (15:19.085) Well, yes, this trend of expensive, complicated, and cumbersome skincare has really been pushed on social media. Kids see celebrities posting complicated TikTok videos and they want to emulate them. That’s the trend. And as you mentioned, it’s the "Sephora baby" trend. Tweens are storming Sephora and Ulta Beauty, making their parents spend all this money on products that may or may not be good for their skin.
Let's break it down. No tween or teen needs harsh acid exfoliants, retinol, tons of toners, or masks that could irritate their developing skin. Our skin barrier is fragile. If you scrub it too much and put on ingredients that act like acids and cause even a tiny chemical burn, you can damage the skin barrier and create other issues. Not only will it feel uncomfortable, but it can look red, lead to allergic or irritant contact dermatitis, and even cause hyperpigmentation in children of color. We don't want that. It can also make acne worse.
So, really, the basics still apply: a cleanser, a moisturizer, and sunscreen. If they want to splurge on a good sunscreen, go for it. That’s always a great splurge. If you're at Sephora, yes, say yes to a good cleanser and sunscreen. A toner is okay, but be mindful of irritation, especially products that are scented or have essential oils.
Sheilagh Maguiness (17:43.757) I hope this craze dies down soon, both as a mom and a doctor. But there are companies targeting teen girls with flashy packaging. I’ve seen it firsthand.
Dr. Cam (18:00.214) And the celebrities—all these new celebrity brands. It’s such a big deal, and it’s geared toward younger kids because adults don’t need it. We don’t.
Sheilagh Maguiness (18:14.925) Nope, we’re not the consumers anymore. They're turning their attention to our tweens and teens, hoping they’ll keep using these products. I’ve seen a lot of young girls in my practice come in with bags full of products. We go through them because many of these products don’t go well with treatments we need for things like eczema, psoriasis, or acne. But these kids are invited to sleepovers where they’re doing all these masks and facials.
We need to educate them to gravitate toward products that are gentle, fragrance-free, and non-comedogenic, especially if they have acne. There are active ingredients that can help with skin concerns, but most teens don’t have major concerns like wrinkles and fine lines. Most of the time, if they have a concern, it’s acne.
Dr. Cam (19:28.318) That’s for us! No one needs it except us. But girls will want it because it's in the culture, and their friends are going to want the fancy stuff. One thought is to get the basic products and put them in fancy bottles or containers, so they feel special.
Sheilagh Maguiness (19:50.573) I love that idea. There are some great jars now—many are more sustainable. A glass jar or something reusable is a great investment.
Dr. Cam (20:02.134) Because they’ll feel special. What else is okay for teens who want to do something more complicated, to feel part of the culture?
Sheilagh Maguiness (20:31.821) There are great serums out there, many containing hyaluronic acid, which is a great ingredient. I don’t think you can go wrong with a serum that’s mostly hyaluronic acid. It’s a humectant—it draws water in. It’s great to use under a moisturizer.
Dr. Cam (20:55.542) Okay, so that’s a good extra.
Sheilagh Maguiness (20:57.549) It is! Another ingredient that’s gained popularity in the last few years is hypochlorous acid. Have you heard of it? It’s antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory. You can spritz it on your face or throw it in your gym bag and use it as a cleanser. It acts like a toner and is really safe. Even if they get it in their eye, it won’t sting or burn.
It’s a great option, like a toner with hypochlorous acid. Some brands carry it, like Tower in a red bottle, or SOS Recovery Sprays. These sprays are fantastic multitaskers because you can use them for skin, cuts, and scrapes.
Dr. Cam (22:02.198) Can you share one or two of those brands?
Sheilagh Maguiness (22:23.501) A lot of people don’t know about it, so it’s a great little gem and safe for tweens and teens.
Dr. Cam (22:30.038) I love that. Let’s say our kids are getting acne, which is common. How can we help them treat it without making it worse, like over-scrubbing or using irritating products?
Sheilagh Maguiness (22:47.725) Absolutely! If your child is starting to get acne, first, look at the type of acne. Is it red pimples with pus bumps in the middle (inflammatory acne)? Or is it more like blackheads or little comedones under the skin (non-inflammatory)? You may need to treat them differently.
For early acne, if it's comedonal—those bumps under the skin—a good start is a gentle cleanser with 1-2% salicylic acid. Salicylic acid helps break up the bonds between skin cells and clears pores.
Another option is adapalene, a topical retinoid, available under the brand Differin. It’s gentle and works well for preventing and treating acne. But be careful—it can be irritating. Start with a pea-sized amount and use it twice a week, then gradually increase. You can use it on the face, chest, and back.
For inflammatory acne, things like benzoyl peroxide, hypochlorous acid spray, or a sodium hypochlorite-based cleanser can help too.
Dr. Cam (25:09.622): Yeah, those are great to have, and we'll put all of those in there. I was gonna ask, because the thing that I see a lot, my daughter uses, I've used, are the little pimple patches. What are your thoughts on those?
Sheilagh Maguiness (25:21.389): Love them. In fact, I wish they had been my idea because I think they're great. The pimple patches do vary though. So for all those listening, just please make sure you use a plain pimple patch, not one with multiple active ingredients or the tiny little ones with a sharper needle-like base. They claim to deliver active ingredients, but I don’t think that's been studied or proven.
The hydrocolloid patches, those little pimple patches, are all very similar. They’re hydrocolloid dressings that help with wound healing. More importantly, they keep fingers off the acne, which helps prevent picking. And that is key, because we don’t want people picking at their acne for fear they might end up with a scar.
Dr. Cam (26:13.142): Yeah, and that's hard not to do, I think, a lot of times. Just stick it on there. Yeah, those are the best. Okay, that’s good to know.
Sheilagh Maguiness (26:15.885): So hard. That’s why you slap a pimple patch on and go out the door. I really love that people are doing them in different colors now, normalizing acne. 95% of teens are going to get acne—it’s okay. You can put a pimple patch on and go about your day.
Dr. Cam (26:31.094): They put colors on and just go like it’s so normal now. It’s interesting. Yeah, that’s great. Okay, so we’ve got simplifying and making it very basic for the boys and showing them how to do it. Simplifying, but maybe fancying it up for the girls and being very cognizant of what we’re allowing on their face. Because a lot of the products they’re putting on their face could actually cause damage.
Sheilagh Maguiness (26:58.669): Yes, 100%.
Dr. Cam (27:00.47): So what is the main, like the one main thing you want parents to walk away with from this session or from this interview?
Sheilagh Maguiness (27:09.293): I don’t want them to feel frustrated with all this skincare craze going on right now. I want to remind everyone that taking great care of your skin for tweens and teens doesn’t have to be expensive, doesn’t have to be cumbersome or multi-step. You can break it down into the advice I’ve given. It doesn’t need to be any of those things. It can be really approachable, fun, and a nice bonding moment for families.
For teens and their parents to go to the store and let them help you pick it out—let them have a say in what they’re choosing.
Dr. Cam (27:45.462): Now that you said that, I have a question. What if our child refuses to clean their face? It becomes this ongoing battle. How worried should we be, or how long can they go before we should get really worried?
Sheilagh Maguiness (28:04.205): I mean, if their face looks really dirty or if it’s starting to sprout acne, you probably should arm them with the tools they need. But you know what? Kids are busy, and I love wipes for this particular reason. I actually formulated my own wipes with the Strike Club. I love them because you can take them on the go—no sink needed. You take them out after sports, athletics, whatever you’re doing, wipe down your face, and even wipe down your equipment.
You can even wipe under your underarms with something like that to clean. I feel like wipes resonate more with our busy teens, our active teens, and our boys too. It’s really helpful to throw them in the gym bag—you're one and done. Wipe off and you’re good.
Dr. Cam (28:53.334): That’s a great idea. I can see that even in the bathroom. Just be like, “If nothing else, just use the wipe. If you don’t have time and you need to get back to gaming, just use the wipe.” Okay. So Dr. Maguiness, how can people find you?
Sheilagh Maguiness (29:03.725): Exactly. Yeah, I think it’s a really nice tool. I’ve ventured a little into social media, and you can find me on both Instagram and TikTok, where I post educational content, mainly for parents.
Dr. Cam (29:21.366): I love that. Okay, and what are you on TikTok?
Sheilagh Maguiness (29:24.045): Sorry, on TikTok, it’s @DrSheilagh (my name is spelled the Irish way, with a G-H at the end), and on Instagram, I’m @doctor.sheila.
Dr. Cam (29:34.358): Okay, I’ll put all that information in the show notes as well. This is great. This was helpful for me too. I’ve learned a lot. Thank you so much for joining us.
Sheilagh Maguiness (29:36.749): Thank you! I hope so. Great. Thanks so much for having me. It’s been so fun to talk about all these fun current issues. 
 
 
ABOUT THE SHOWThe Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam 
 
#teenagehygiene #skincareforteens

Resilient Teens: Helping Your Teen Overcome Adversity with Jesse LeBeau

Teen resilience is more important than ever. Between social anxieties, academic pressures, and the complexities of friendships, many teens struggle to navigate life’s challenges. That’s why I’m thrilled to welcome Jesse LeBeau, a nationally recognized youth motivational speaker and teen coach. With his powerful underdog story and proven methods, Jesse has inspired over a million teens to develop confidence, resilience, and a winning mindset. In this episode, he shares his game-changing approach—The Attitude Advantage—to help teens conquer adversity and thrive.
 
Key Takeaways
Building self-esteem and confidence is essential for teens to overcome challenges.
Setting boundaries and limiting screen time can reduce the negative effects of social media on mental health.
Parents should prepare their teens for real-world struggles by allowing them to experience failure and growth.
Finding a mentor can provide teens with valuable guidance and support.
 
Enjoying the Show?
Help others discover this episode by leaving a rating and review! Your feedback means the world to me and allows us to bring even more valuable insights to parents like you. Don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 
 
Connect with Jesse LeBeau
Website: www.jesselebeau.com
Instagram: @jesselebeau
Facebook: Jesse LeBeau
YouTube: Jesse LeBeau Channel
LinkedIn: Jesse LeBeau
 
Connect with Dr. Cam
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your essential guide to navigating the complexities of adolescence with clarity and confidence. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist, the podcast provides practical strategies and expert insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional development. Whether you're an experienced parent or just starting your journey with teens, this podcast is packed with valuable information to help you thrive.
 
#TeenResilience #ConfidenceMatters #OvercomingAdversity #TeenMotivation #ParentingTeens #TheAttitudeAdvantage #RaisingResilientTeens #TeenSuccess #JesseLeBeau #TeenEmpowerment #GrowthMindset #MentalStrength #LifeSkillsForTeens #BuildingConfidence #TheTeenTranslator #DrCamCaswell

Protecting Teens from Diet Culture: How to Foster Positive Body Image & Healthy Habits

Did you know that 20% of adolescents in the U.S. experience symptoms of body dysmorphia or eating disorders? The pressure to achieve unrealistic beauty standards is stronger than ever, thanks to social media and diet culture. As a parent, you want to protect your teen from these harmful influences—but how?
In this episode, Dr. Cam is joined by Dr. Kelli Rugless, a licensed psychologist, certified eating disorders specialist, and the Chief Clinical Officer at Project HEAL, a non-profit dedicated to making eating disorder treatment accessible to all. Together, they uncover the dangers of diet culture, the role of social media, and how parents can support their teens in developing a healthy relationship with food and their bodies.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How diet culture and social media impact teens' body image and mental health
Practical strategies to help your teen build a positive relationship with food
The truth about emotional eating—and why it’s not always bad
How parental support can make a powerful difference in preventing eating disorders
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Social media plays a huge role in shaping teens' body image, often fueling insecurities and unrealistic beauty standards.
Teaching your teen to have a balanced, non-restrictive approach to food can help prevent disordered eating patterns.
Emotional eating isn’t inherently harmful—understanding its role can help teens develop a healthier mindset around food.
Open conversations about body image and self-worth can empower your teen to reject toxic diet culture.
Your connection and support as a parent are critical in helping your teen build confidence and a healthy self-image.
 
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Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫
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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Project HEAL FREE clinical assessments
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction to the Impact of Diet Culture and Social Media on Teens
02:33 The Scary Impact of Social Media on Teen Self-Esteem
06:12 Addressing the Prominence of Diet Culture and Thin Ideals
10:41 Navigating Unhealthy Relationships with Food and Body Image
29:11 Understanding Emotional Eating and Coping Mechanisms
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Kelli Rugless
Website: https://www.drkellirugless.com
Instagram: @drkellirugless
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelli-rugless-psyd
Project HEAL Website: https://www.theprojectheal.org
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
Newsletter: https://drcam.ck.page/newsletter
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam (00:00.454)Hello parents, Dr. Cam here. Today we're diving into a critical issue—the constant pressure of diet culture and its impact on our teens. Did you know a whopping 20% of adolescents in the U.S. experience symptoms of body dysmorphia or eating disorders? Is the unrealistic expectation bombarding them on social media to blame? Joining me to shed light on this topic is the amazing Dr. Kelli Rugless, a licensed psychologist, Certified Eating Disorder Specialist, and the Chief Clinical Officer at Project HEAL, a remarkable nonprofit fighting for everyone to have access to eating disorder healing. Dr. Rugless, welcome to the show.
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (00:40.369)Thank you for having me.
Dr. Cam (00:41.958)Absolutely. So let's start at the beginning. What inspired you to specialize in eating disorders?
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (00:48.049)Honestly, I was not inspired by anything. Truthfully, I went into graduate school thinking that eating disorders were the last thing I wanted to work with. I think they get a bad rap. My first introduction was a teacher talking about how people with eating disorders really don't get better, they're really difficult, and it's a really hard population to work with. I remember thinking, I don’t want to do that. So my first thought was absolutely not—I never want to do that.
But then, as part of my training, I had different rotations, and eating disorders were one of them. I began to see how much more they are about than just food. Food is what grabs everyone’s attention, but eating disorders are about so much more. Once I realized the different aspects they could involve—the intersection of mental health, physical health, and even social justice—it just felt like the perfect fit for me and my interests. So I wasn’t initially inspired, but once I had the experience, I saw the depth of it.
Dr. Cam (02:05.222)Right. And then all of a sudden, it just sounded way more interesting and complicated. And they can be helped, correct? Because that started off like—wait a second! Yeah, they can be helped.
One of the scariest things about social media—one of many—is the impact it has on our self-esteem, how we view our bodies, and how teens are growing up viewing their own bodies. I've seen this personally. I know a lot of parents are worried about this. First of all, is this something to be concerned about?
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (02:50.161)Yes, we should all be very much concerned about the impact social media is having—not only on teenagers and their confidence and body image but on their mental health in general. Every single research study out there looking at social media tells us the same thing: people feel worse the more they use it.
And it doesn’t matter how they use it. You could try to curate a page focused on positivity and growth, but the issue is that social media is a highlight reel presented as real life. You're only seeing the best parts of people's lives—or even the most curated parts of the bad moments. It’s a well-edited, well-produced version of vulnerability or sadness. It looks real, but it’s not.
This makes it easy to believe your life should look like everyone else's and that your body should look like theirs. Not only is that unhealthy, but it’s also unrealistic.
Dr. Cam (04:14.374)But here’s the thing, Kelli—social media isn’t going away, and our teens are not going to let go of it. It’s their entertainment, their social interaction, their connection to the world. So what do we do?
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (04:30.193)The best thing we can do is model the type of relationship we want our children to have with social media.
That means saying things like, I'm sure we're only getting half the story or I wonder what filters they used on that or We don’t see all of their life—just a small part. Keep reinforcing the idea that social media is entertainment, not reality.
You wouldn’t look at a movie and think, That’s how my life should go. You’d understand there are editors, production, and scripts involved. The same thing applies to social media, but because it feels organic, we forget all the mechanisms at play.
It’s also okay to set limits. Have house rules like no phones at dinner or no screens after a certain time when on vacation. These small boundaries help create a healthier relationship with social media. You’re not taking it away completely, but you are setting limits.
Dr. Cam (06:12.39)That’s so important—for us as well. Because while we’re worried about our kids, I see the impact on parents, too. Parents start comparing their kids to others.
Diet culture has always been a big deal, but now it's everywhere. Dangerous TikTok trends for losing weight are popping up constantly. How do we buffer against this diet-crazed, thin-is-best culture—especially when so many of us have already bought into it?
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (07:11.985)That’s a great point. As parents, the way we influence our kids most is through how we talk about ourselves.
You can tell your kids all day long that all bodies are beautiful, but if you’re looking in the mirror criticizing yourself, talking about needing to lose weight, or pointing out your flaws, that message will override everything else.
Work on your own relationship with your body. Acknowledge that your body’s appearance is the least interesting thing about you. Your value is inherent—not tied to how you look. And your body does so much for you. Even if there’s something you don’t like about it, balance that with gratitude for what it can do.
If you need to talk to someone to work through those things, it’s worth it. The impact on your kids, your family, and even your friends is huge.
Dr. Cam (09:16.614)That was something I was committed to from day one with my daughter—never talking about my body in a negative way in front of her. It’s a struggle, but I didn’t want her to have the same struggles.
Even with all of that, social media still bombards her with these messages. And sometimes, no matter how much we talk, what they see feels more real than what we say. So what else can we do?
[10:49.233] Kelli Rugless, PsyD: One thing we can do is stay curious. Instead of saying, "That’s bad for you—don’t watch that," ask them, "How does this make you feel?" Rather than jumping in to fix it, validate their experience. If they say, "It just makes me feel terrible," resist the urge to say, "No, you’re beautiful!" Instead, say, "I get that. If I were in your shoes, I’d feel the same way." When they’re ready for reassurance, that’s when you say, "But you are so much more than your appearance. I love this about you, your friends love that about you." Let them lead. Be there to listen first, and the influence will follow.
Our culture isn't right, but our goal is to talk to our kids and teenagers about the realities of accepting this really toxic culture that we live in, internalizing the messages, and what that can do—versus setting ourselves apart and actively trying to distance ourselves from the toxic aspects of our culture. Weight stigma is real.
People being afraid of gaining weight makes sense, right? Given the culture we live in—where there's discrimination against folks of different sizes—you can't get your clothes at the same store as your friends if you get above a certain size. If they do make it, it doesn't fit the same, the quality's different. There are real consequences to being in a larger body that people naturally want to avoid. It makes sense why they want to avoid that. However, it doesn't make weight stigma okay, right?
So what we're talking about is two types of discomfort. You can either be uncomfortable in the sense that you've internalized these toxic beliefs about weight and are forever on a hamster wheel trying to keep up with everyone, which is uncomfortable and really hard. Or you can be uncomfortable in the sense that you're separating yourself from the culture, which means you don't quite fit in. You're not talking about the same things, you're not getting on every new diet, you're not limiting the clothing you wear or saying, "I can only wear a one-piece because my body is this size." You're fully living the life you want to live in the body that you're in. And you might be on the outside of things, or you might get some dirty looks, or you might hear people saying rude things. No matter how you look at it, there's discomfort. It's going to be hard. The key is to pick your hard.
Which type of challenge do you want to take on? Which one is in alignment with your values and the kind of person you want to be as an adult? And that is the hard piece. It's a mature topic. It's a big, heavy decision. A lot of times, when I'm working with teenagers, one of the things they’ll mention to me is, "Why do I have to deal with this? All my other friends aren't talking about this. They're not thinking about this. Why am I thinking about it?" And I kind of commiserate with them and say, "I know. You're having to do some really heavy work really early. It will serve you. As you get older, you’ll be light years ahead of some folks. By the time you get to your 20s or 30s, you will have done this and figured out who you are outside of your appearance, and you'll be grateful. But right now, it is hard because the rest of your friends aren't dealing with this heaviness."
[19:41.126] Dr. Cam: Yeah. So what if they go into a really restrictive diet or develop a very unhealthy relationship with food and exercise because they’ve picked the "I don’t want to be different. I want to be thin and be like everyone I see in the world" route? Which, again, is not true. But what if they go that route and you're like, "I'm getting really scared about their health and their mindset about themselves because now they're obsessed with their weight"? I see kids that never feel good enough. I'll ask them, "What weight are you trying to get to?" or "How thin do you need to be?" and they don’t even have a goal. They just say, "Till I feel confident." And that’s dangerous because they won’t. So how do we handle that if we see our kids going down that path?
[20:29.137] Kelli Rugless, PsyD: That is the time to absolutely say something and do something—act quickly. Sometimes it can be tempting to let them grow out of it, to let them figure it out, or to avoid arguing with them. "I don’t want to create conflict, so I’m just going to let it be. I’m seeing some things I don’t like, and I’m just going to hope that things right themselves." With eating disorders, they thrive in isolation. The longer you let it go without saying something, the stronger it becomes and the harder it is to address.
When you see something, say something. Be loving, be kind, be warm, but be really clear about your concerns and act. Call a therapist who specializes in eating disorders. Look up an eating disorder treatment center in your area to get an assessment. Act quickly and get professionals involved. Eating disorders require a team—many people working from different directions to help someone recover. The quicker you notice it and get help, the easier it is to address. Talk about it, ask questions, express your love and care, but be really firm about your desire to help them and your confidence that what you’re seeing is not okay.
[22:20.902] Dr. Cam: Now, I’ve had parents who—understandably, no judgment—force their kids to eat. They set consequences if they don’t eat, put a certain amount of food on their plate, or bribe them to eat. Is that a helpful method?
[22:39.185] Kelli Rugless, PsyD: It depends on where your child is, but it can be helpful. I’d say it’s most helpful under the guidance of a provider. If, as a parent, you're going to take on that role, make sure your teenager has a therapist to help them process how hard it is to be forced to eat when they’re really afraid of food or gaining weight. But the act of feeding your child and making food non-negotiable is a very important part of treatment and recovery. A malnourished brain cannot get better. It can’t do the work of figuring out the underlying causes of the eating disorder if it is not well-nourished.
Feeding your child and making it a priority is huge, but you also want to make sure they have the support they need. Food is not just food anymore—it’s really hard. The level of anxiety that those with eating disorders feel when forced to eat is through the roof. They need support, skills, and sometimes even medication. So make sure you provide as much support as you can through the re-feeding process.
Dr. Cam (29:27.75) Well, it's not as good as Doritos either, let's be real.
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (29:39.697) These black-and-white ideas about food—so that we can be more clear about what we feel like, what we actually want to eat versus what we feel driven to eat.
Dr. Cam (29:49.03) That is so important. And Kelli, it’s funny because I use that same philosophy with tech use: when we keep restricting it, they end up binging it and not having a healthy relationship with it. So I think this goes across anything. If you see your kids hoarding or having meltdowns or sneaking something, it’s not about hoarding or stopping it more. It’s about where we are already restricting to the point where they now have to get sneaky.
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (30:16.785) Yeah, absolutely. We need more opportunities to say yes, right? The more you say yes, the easier it is to say no. Because you feel like, "Well, I can tell myself if I can’t have it today, I can have it another day." If I can’t have my electronics on Monday, I know I’ll get them on Tuesday. So I can put it away because I know I can look forward to it. And the same goes with food.
Dr. Cam (30:39.462) Yeah, it is. And it’s all about developing a healthy relationship with it. I think that’s the biggest thing: How are we looking at it as something that gives us nutrients, energy, makes us feel good, and separating it from how we look? And that’s important.
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (31:00.817) Absolutely. The only other point I’ll make that I think is really important is I have a lot of parents talk to me about, "My kid is emotionally eating. Emotional eating is really bad. I don’t want them to do it." What I will say is, emotional eating is not bad. If you think about the things that we need to survive—water, air, food—food is the only one that can literally change, you know, it can increase a certain amount of neurotransmitters and change your mood.
So, it’s got a really valuable purpose. It’s our psychiatric medication. And when we don’t have access to it, that’s a good thing. You just want to make sure that’s not the only way your child is managing their emotions. If it’s one out of ten different things they do when they don’t feel good, that’s okay. We’re supposed to do that. That’s how humans have evolved. That’s what our relationship with food is supposed to be. It’s not just about fuel. But you want to make sure that your child also knows how to journal, meditate, put on some music to influence their mood, maybe get outside and get some sun. They need to know how to manage their emotions in a variety of ways, so they’re not overusing food as a tool for coping.
Dr. Cam (32:21.03) I’m very thankful you brought that up because yes, that is a big one I hear as well. And it is something that makes you think, "Are they just going to be a binger their whole life?" I think looking at it as a coping mechanism and digging into what they’re coping with is huge. And finding other ways is phenomenal. Kelli, what’s the one biggest takeaway you think is important for parents to have from this episode?
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (32:47.217) I hope parents take away this idea: Their children are okay. There are things out there that are really scary, and there are big concerns, right? We want to avoid eating disorders, we want to avoid negative body image, but by and large, your children are okay. And what they need more than anything else is a connection with you. If you are fostering that connection, you will be able to see what they’re struggling with from a mile away, and you’ll have built the necessary relationship to have the influence you need to help them. So, rather than focusing on these individual topics that are scary, I would always go back to building that connection with your children. Get to know them, do your best to enjoy them, so that you are naturally in a relationship with them. That way, you’ll see what they see, and you can address issues as they come up. Because that’s where our power is as parents: In our ability to connect with them.
Dr. Cam (33:48.774) It certainly is. And I think we focus a lot on the correction and the restriction, which tears apart our connection— the only thing that actually helps. So, I see that a lot. I love that. Kelli, how do people find you?
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (33:58.897) Yeah, it’s the connection and it’s the love. I’m on social media, although I’m not particularly active, but I am on social media at Dr. Kelli Rugless. I have my own practice, where I see parents, families, and adults for eating disorder and body image stuff, called Flir Psychology. I also work at Project Teal. Project Teal is an amazing nonprofit. If you or someone you know is concerned about having an eating disorder and maybe wants a free assessment, we offer free assessments. We provide treatment recommendations, connect you with providers in your area who specialize in eating disorders, offer cash assistance, and insurance navigation. We have a whole host of programs meant to help folks learn about eating disorders and recover at any stage. You can find me in those three areas.
Dr. Cam (35:01.222) I have a feeling a lot of people are thinking, "I need Project Teal. How do they find it?"
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (35:05.041) Yeah. You can go online at www.theprojectheal.org. That website has everything you need: resources, services, helpful information about eating disorders. It’s the website to visit.
Dr. Cam (35:21.254) I’ll put that link as well. Kelli, thank you so much for joining me today.
Kelli Rugless, PsyD (35:23.057) Thank you for having me.
 
ABOUT THE SHOW
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together.
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Could Your Teen Be at Risk of a Religious Cult? Red Flags & How to Protect Them—Insights from a Cult Survivorr

In this powerful episode, Dr. Cam is joined by Sarah Bruno-Patrey to discuss the far-reaching effects of religious trauma on teens and how parents can help them navigate these challenges. Sarah shares her personal story of growing up within a religious youth program and the healing journey she experienced. If your teen is grappling with religious trauma or a crisis of faith, this episode will provide you with the tools to better understand and support them through these tough times. It’s a must-listen for parents looking to create an open, supportive environment for their teens, especially when faith and identity are involved.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How religious trauma impacts teens and how it can lead to feelings of isolation and shame
Practical ways to help your teen through a crisis of faith
How to recognize unhealthy religious experiences and protect your teen’s mental health
The importance of open communication, mentorship, and empowering your teen to make their own decisions about faith
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Religious trauma can leave teens feeling emotionally isolated, and it’s crucial to recognize the signs early to offer support.
Open communication is essential for helping your teen heal from religious trauma—letting them express their feelings is key.
Supporting your teen through a crisis of faith is about being present, not imposing beliefs, and offering a safe space.
Parents should focus on being mentors, helping teens navigate spiritual and emotional challenges without pressure.
Offering your teen options and autonomy during this process can help them find their own path to healing and self-discovery.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫
🔔 Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS00:00 – The Impact of Religious Trauma on Teens03:34 – Recognizing Unhealthy Experiences in Religious Programs
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Sarah Bruno-Patrey
TikTok: @sarahbrunopatrey
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam
As parents, we want nothing more than our teens to find their path in life. For many, religion offers a sense of belonging and purpose. But what happens when it leaves our teens feeling isolated, ashamed, or questioning everything they believe? Today, I'm joined by Sarah Bruno -Patri to talk about the impact of religious trauma on teens and what parents can do to support them. But before we dive in, I want to share that Sarah and I have known each other for years, and actually through church but I only recently heard about her experiences with this particular religious program, actually through TikTok, and talked to her and asked her if she would jump on, because I feel like it's really important for us parents to be aware of what's going on. So Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you. So let's talk about, first of all, what was your experience because you did this as a teenager. So what was kind of the experience or the motive to go into this particular program and what was that program?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (00:59.19)
Yeah, so I grew up obviously in the church and it was an amazing, beautiful experience. And I knew after I graduated high school that college was not like in the cards for me, at least immediately. And so my parents and I decided that I could take a gap year and they would foot the bill and I can just go find a program and go do that as long as I had a plan. And so I had been exposed to this organization called Youth with a Mission (https://ywam.org/> when I was actually in high school, I went with a couple of classmates to Kona, Hawaii, two summers in a row. And so I kind of had a sense of what this organization was. I knew that it wasn't exactly how I had grown up in the church. It was a little bit different with its theology and things like that. And I was like, it's okay, I'll put those things aside. And I decided to go to Australia. So I went to literally the farthest place that I could go from Washington DC. If you drilled a hole through the earth, it would come out in Perth, Australia, or at least around there. And I just wanted to get out of our town. And so that's where I went. And I was there for six months. I spent three months of it in Perth, Australia and three months of it in Asia.
 Dr. Cam (02:16.742)
At that time, and I know through the teen years, I know church paid a big and religion played a big part in your life. What kind of role was that playing for you or what kind of place was that filling for you?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (02:31.094)
It was just like the big sense of community for me. I feel like going through school, like I had different friend groups, but then once I really found my community in my church and like other youth ministry organizations, it was like, these are my people. I had the support that I needed as a teenager and I had like the adults around me that I needed as a teenager because teenagers need a lot of adults. And so that was just like, I spent all my time with my religious community. And it was a great thing up until that point. It was like an amazing part of my life. So.
Dr. Cam (03:06.278)
That's what's really clear about this. We're not saying like religious groups are bad, you know, and we did. I mean, I was one of your youth leaders and it was an amazing experience. And we were able to really just connect and talk to kids on a lot deeper level. So then it went to this next phase. And I think one of the things the question is, how do we know when it is a healthy experience and when it becomes a toxic experience?
Tell us a little bit about your experience there and when did you actually realize it might not be the healthiest experience for you.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (03:43.062)
Yeah, so like I said before, I kind of knew what I was getting into wasn't exactly like how I had been raised in the church. I knew that things would be a little bit different. But like for some reference of it, it's a six month initially to like join this organization. You have to do a six month program. The first three months that I was in Australia was the discipleship training school part of it. So it was like the lecture phase is what they called it. And so that was you're in a classroom all week.
And then you did the outreach, which was like the mission part. And it was pretty early on into it that I realized that this isn't, not only did I not like align with this in its theology, the things that I could kind of put aside, but just in like most aspects, it just wasn't a healthy organization. It was pretty like off the bat, a lot of comments about my faith and my spirituality growing up where I grew up that I didn't like see eye to eye was a lot bigger of a deal. And every week we had a topic and every Friday they called it like application Friday. So the first week was prayer. So we learned about prayer and then Friday we did something involving prayer like evangelism for example, we did Monday through Thursday we learned about evangelism on Friday we went out and evangelized. I think the big thing that sent sirens off in my head was the third week we did forgiveness and repentance. Where, you know, Monday through Thursday, we learned about sin and repentance and things that are biblical and good, like, you know, repenting from your sins, turning the other direction, walking away from it completely, things that are pretty standard. But then on Friday, when we had our application, we had to write a list of our sins down.
Dr. Cam (05:08.774)
Red flags, yes.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (05:38.134)
Things that spanned from yoga, which I don't believe is a sin. I have never believed it was a sin. I remember like going on the phone with my pastor from home. I was like, is yoga really a sin? And he's like, no, that's a little ridiculous. Playing Dungeons and Dragons, things like that. Yeah, all the way to like sexual sin, things like that. We had to write a list and then on Friday morning, we started in the morning, we had to sit next to a speaker.
Dr. Cam (05:41.446)
Yoga! My goodness.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (06:05.11)
We didn't really know in a classroom full of people that we've only known for a few weeks. And we actually combined with another classroom, so complete strangers at that point. And we had to sit up there, read our lists of sins, and then repent for it, ask for forgiveness from God. Again, things that are all biblical, if they're done correctly. So, you know, confessing to a friend, somebody you trust would be a very, like, good practice. But this was kind of distorted and sitting up there telling it to a group of people you didn't know, you didn't have like that relational currency with. Having to forgive for just crazy things and it lasted for 14 hours. We didn't, yeah, we didn't have, we missed our meals, everything. So that was when I was like, I'm not gonna just like sit here and do everything that they tell me to do. I am going to question some things and yeah, big red flags. they didn't like that. I didn't even want to participate in that particular activity. And I was kind of like getting the death stare from the leader at the time. He was standing right next to the door so he couldn't even like walk out. It's just a lot of very strategic things like that to kind of wear you down until you actually get up there and do it. And.
Dr. Cam (07:06.918)
How did that go over when you started to question things? No?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (07:30.454)
the entire program I was questioning things and I was saying things that I believed about like even just topics like women in ministry, things like that. And it was always not reprimanded, like I would get in trouble, but it was definitely like, you need to just stop, like keep your mouth shut. Like this isn't your place, which I like to question things. So that is the question that I get a lot. And I think it's hard for people who look in from an outside perspective to understand why somebody would stay. But first of all, I was a teenager. I had built this up in my head of like, this is my gap year. I'm in Australia. I have this new sense of independence I didn't have at home. Not that my parents were strict looking back on it. Of course, I thought that they were the most strict people in the entire world. My parents had spent all this money, like I think like 10 grand for me to be there. I knew I could go home if I wanted to. My parents had the financial ability to get me home. I knew that, like that was just an option, but it also wasn't. They kind of made it seem like, well, everybody at home has moved on. You don't have a community at home anyways. I had friends there that couldn't get home financially for whatever reasons. I felt like I would be leaving them in the dust if I left. I also have a big sense of pride of like, I don't want to admit that this didn't go the way that I was expecting it to, the way that I had convinced my parents it would go. I think that's a hard lesson for any teenager to learn is to just swallow your pride if it means to keep yourself safe and, you know, but didn't do that. So, mm -hmm.
Dr. Cam (09:12.902)
You stayed and then did it ever, did you ever kind of change your idea about it or kind of warm up to what that experience was?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (09:24.182)
Yes, it's like, it's a really weird, like, experience being there because it does become your entire world. And I knew that I wasn't seeing eye to eye with this organization as a whole. It had its issues, but these were like my friends now, my people. And I just kind of at some point was like, this is it. Like this is, I don't want to go to college still. Everybody at home. They've been telling that everybody at home has moved on they don't there will be nobody at home for me and we did have fun like there were some really fun parts and so it was just a lot of like you have tunnel vision while you're there and you're being love -bombed but also like Not you're also being worn down
Dr. Cam (10:14.054)
Sounds like a little bit of gaslighting too maybe.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (10:17.174)
There's a lot of gaslighting, yeah. I would definitely agree with that.
Dr. Cam (10:21.702)
When you're talking to your parents about it, how are you selling what's going on down there?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (10:28.758)
So my parents and I had kind of like a complicated relationship before I had left. We didn't have like a huge like, we weren't super close in the way that I could be like, my gosh, like this is how I'm feeling. It was mostly like, this is what we're doing. And like, here's my friend that I've made. Like we're having fun. And then I think once I went on outreach was where I realized that my parents weren't the enemy. And like I did need them more than I thought I did, because I had some pretty bad experiences while I was not only in Australia, which is like America just far away, but I was in rural parts of Nepal and Indonesia. And like there were instances where I was like, I really wish I had my mom right now. And we didn't have Wi -Fi. We didn't have, I went like weeks without being able to talk to them. And so we just didn't have a huge like open line of communication. Even when I was in Australia, it was a 13 hour time difference. So communicating was tough as it was, but.
Dr. Cam (11:31.078)
So they had you isolated in there. And so you, when you, so then you came, you did come home after six months. And how was that transition?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (11:39.03)
Mm -hmm. It was really hard. They don't prepare you to come home. And I think that that is a little strategic. It was interesting seeing that, like, yeah, my friends, obviously their life doesn't stop while they're back at home. You know, a lot of them are still in high school. And then just coming in, being like the outsider all of a sudden, it kind of like reinforced, I need to go back. I need to go where people are familiar.
And so there was no preparation on either end. I don't think my parents knew that they would have to prepare me. I think it was just like, you're home, like going to college or something. Yeah, exactly. So it was tough. And then my community just in general kind of fell apart. And then that's when like I had a mentor be like, you should really just give college a shot, just go. And that was nice because
Dr. Cam (12:19.462)
What's the difference?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (12:37.814)
everybody's starting over in college. Nobody has that sense of community that I thought I was going to have when I came home or that was back in Australia.
Dr. Cam (12:46.726)
Were you able to share with that mentor what had been going on? I know you said you really weren't comfortable sharing with your parents at that time, but were you able to share with your mentor?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (12:55.35)
So I had been in communication with him and his wife, probably more than my parents at that point while I was over there. So they were kind of clued in on a lot of stuff that was happening already. And they were very skeptical of the organization already because they had family members that were in it before. And so they kind of knew, and I think they were able to kind of redirect me a little bit better than my parents did because they had no experience with it.
And so it was a little bit easier to share that. But I think a lot of it I didn't realize was even that wrong until I went to college and I started talking to friends and sharing stories and even talking to friends that I had back in Australia when they moved home and we kind of like decompressed together and deconstructed like our experience. And we're like, wow, that was like in hindsight, hindsight's always 20, 20. That was not a good thing, that was not okay, it wasn't healthy. So being able to do that together was nice too.
Dr. Cam (14:01.926)
How do you think that's impacted you now? Now that you're like realizing this was not a great situation, how is that kind of feeding into how you're interacting with the world or just your thoughts of yourself right now even?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (14:17.398)
Yeah, I think it's really easy to like look back and be like, my gosh, I was so stupid to like keep going to stay and like, you know, I have people, my TikTok comments being like, why didn't you lie? Why didn't you leave? Why didn't you do that X, Y, and Z? And I have to like give myself some grace because I was 18 years old. Like I was very young and just, yeah.
Dr. Cam (14:44.55)
I want to help parents understand because this is a specific situation, but it is, it relates to a lot of situations because we've got this sense of needing to find a place to belong. Right. And so that is enormously important for all humans, but particularly for a teenager, right. Finding that, sense of not having a voice because you are a teenager. Even though you're disagreeing, not feeling like you have that ability to stand up and also kind of not having the connection you needed at the time with your parents to be able to say, hey, we've got to change this. So you're kind of, there's kind of the sense of isolation. So how can parents or what can your parents do? Is there anything they could have done differently at that point or what could have helped at that point. And this is not blaming your parents at all, not even remotely, but I think this is more, again, 2020 hindsight, right? This is more telling parents, hey, here's some things to look out for or here's some things we can do now to hopefully prevent this from happening.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (15:44.502)
My parents did, I feel like, all the right things. They reached out to multiple people that had been in the organization. We had dinner with a family that their son had been a part of it for a while. And I think one of the things in hindsight is we got a lot of the male perspective from being in that organization, which I think going in as an 18 -year -old female is a lot different than a 20 -year -old male, you know? So just making sure, like, first of all, that is seeing eye to eye. Also, I think one thing that we could have done better was pinpointing why I wanted to go. For me, it wasn't so much the religious aspect that was just more convenient. It was the traveling. I wanted to get out. I wanted to travel. I wanted to be away from home. I think something that parents can do when kids come to them saying, I want to be a missionary or I want to be specifically in this organization is to be like, well, why do you want to do that? Do you want to travel? If so, there are so many organizations that you're able to travel. Because my parents would have never let me just go backpack through Europe by myself. Like that's just not, but there's different organizations. There's different ways to do that. If it is something where you want to serve, you want to volunteer, there's plenty of organizations that also do that.
Dr. Cam (17:07.91)
That sounds scary.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (17:22.358)
that are great and reputable and I have a whole list of them that aren't YWAM that I could... But if it is a religious thing, I think what is really important is to first recognize that serving locally in your local church or even going and interning at a church in a different state. Doing something that is serving your local community is going to be a lot more helpful to those communities than a white person going to Nepal and being like, Jesus is amazing. I think that, yeah, exactly. I think like, I mean, there's a lot of issues and the whole mission aspect of it too. But I think pinpointing exactly why your child, your teen wants to go and do a gap year, because college isn't for everyone right off the bat. And then finding different ways, having options and being like, of course you can't, 
Dr. Cam (17:53.958)
We relate to you so well.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (18:19.638)
At that point be like, you need to do this. I mean, you can, but if you want them to have the choice, you're like, here's your options, here's the pros and cons, and then go from there. Interview people, there's plenty of Facebook groups for different organizations. There's a lot that I'm in that are like survivors of YYM. So I think that that's probably a big red flag.
Dr. Cam (18:37.798)
Wow. Yeah, go research if there are a bunch of groups that are survivors of this, that might not be a good sign that that's the thing to do. When your mentor kind of talked you out of going back and going to school, what were some of the things that he said to you that parents might, because that's not an easy thing to do, especially if you've got that, like, I don't want to show that I was wrong.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (18:42.55)
Exactly. Yeah.
Dr. Cam (19:07.014)
I want to be independent. I don't want to show that I made a bad choice, even though you had no idea. So what can parents do at that point to say, okay, it's okay, how do we move forward?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (19:22.294)
Yeah, I think a big thing for me was college was very accessible and I know that that's not like the case for everybody. One of the points he made was like, well, you're not paying for it. Like just go, just try it. Like what's the worst that could happen? And just, he never made me feel like I made a wrong decision by going and that like what I did was wrong or that I should feel any type of shame about it. It was just like here's a different opportunity and like, what do you have to lose by at least trying? Like give it, he said, just give it a semester. It was like, I had a start and an end date of like giving this and I went into that college, like ready to prove him wrong and be like, I told you I don't like it. And like, this isn't for me. And the exact opposite is what happened, but having like just a different option. And I mean, I'm really stubborn. So even having just the challenge of like, give it a try, like what's the worst that could happen? So if you do go back, if you're just gonna go back six months later than you expected, what's the difference? Mm -hmm.
Dr. Cam (20:24.07)
Right, let's try something different. I think there's so many good points there because it's not about forcing you, it's not about shaming or pointing out what you did wrong. It is about going, okay, that was your choice, here's why you did it, let's try something else. And that end date, so it's like, let's just give it a try, a go. And it's not like you're stuck doing and committed to that. Because I think sometimes kids go, “If I try it, then I'm committed to it for how, four years. And now if I don't want to do it. So I like that that was kind of that approach. And how did your parents feel about that approach? I'm sure they were. Yeah. So the other thing is having mentors for your kid that you trust. absolutely. And the thing is, he had spent years building that relationship with you too. They were thrilled. They were so relieved. Well he was the only one that I would have listened to, honestly.
Dr. Cam (21:15.718)
That makes a big difference as well as having that opportunity and having other people around that you trust because parents aren't going to be the first person kids go to and for many of the same reasons you didn't is because you just don't want to show that you're wrong because you're trying to be independent. And that's a hard thing to do. What are some signs that parents might be able to look for that you think that their kids are in an unhealthy situation.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (21:48.374)
Yeah, I think just like distance communication is a big thing. Like I said, like my parents and I weren't super close at this point. So like that wasn't probably wasn't the biggest red flag to them that I wasn't talking to them every day. But also just if everything seems like rainbow and sunshine, like maybe it is, but maybe it's not. And just like asking questions to not just like, like what have you been doing? But like, what have you been doing? And like, how did that not make you feel, because what teenager is going to love that question? But how is that experience for you? Asking about the relationships that they're making, their interactions with leadership, I think is a big thing too. I was having really awful interactions with leadership and not even to fault them because looking back on it, they were 21, 22, 23. I can't, yeah, exactly. And this has been their entire life too.  
Dr. Cam (22:40.006)
Doing what they were told.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (22:45.782)
But interactions with leadership and just like, how are you, you know, like how are they interacting with you? How are you interacting with them? How is that making you feel? Like, do you feel safe? There's a lot of times where I was like, we weren't even in a safe location, like to even live, which I think if my dad had seen where I was living, he would have been very upset.  
Dr. Cam (23:10.406)
Was there anything they could have said or done to have forced you back?
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (23:16.086)
I don't know, honestly, that's a good question. Maybe if they had like physically come get me, or been like bribed me somehow with like, you know, you can, we can go on a trip to Europe, I don't know. But, mm -hmm.
Dr. Cam (23:22.182)
Then you might have resented it or still not come to that conclusion yourself that this wasn't a good situation. And so you would have still thought that was a good decision or a good break. So I think you going through, which is hard for parents to see, but you going through this and figuring this out seems to be what really got you through this. And you got through it.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (23:38.23)
Exactly. I did. And it's been like a long time deconstructing all of it, but like I do think that I have like a better sense of self because of it. So it's a hard thing to like look back on too, because yeah, I don't think that there was much my parents could have done. I think that there are ways that I could have been supported when I got home a little bit better, but teenagers sometimes are just gonna have to figure things out by themselves. I was definitely that type of teenager. So. Yes.
Dr. Cam (24:27.078)
There's a lot of that type of teenager and it's very frustrating for parents, but I think it's really important to realize that our kids are going to make decisions. Some of them are going to really scare us and just stay supporting them because your parents did not say, forget it. That's the wrong thing. You're on your own. Like they stayed there. Finding that mentor that can help talk some sense into them is really big. Just staying there and supporting your kids. Because now your relationship with your parents, how is that relationship now? Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (25:03.894)
It's great. It's fantastic. And I still, I talk to my mom sometimes about like what had gone on. I think a lot of it, my husband also did the same program, which is how we met. We didn't meet while we're in the program. He did his in South Africa, like about a year later, but we were introduced to each other because of it. He had a much different experience than me. Again, I think the male experience is different. But having people and like, I don't know, jus finding people that you can talk to about it. That might not be your parents, but having parents support you and finding that too is really good.
Dr. Cam (25:40.038)
That's great. And I will attest, your mom's pretty awesome. So, she's pretty cool. So, I think that's a big thing too. Like, I can't imagine it wasn't that she did something wrong or you did anything wrong. It was just a situation where it seemed right in the moment and it turned out not so right. And you got through and I love that. So, that's really what I wanted to share with parents because I think it's just important for us to know because there's so much fear around what our kids are doing. And I think sometimes we gotta let them do it anyway, but being there and kind of having that support system there to help them through it is really good. Because I don't see how this could have been prevented.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (26:26.39)
Yeah, no, I know, because I feel like we definitely did all the right things going into it. I think just, yeah, like reiterating to your team that home, like it's okay to come home if you need to. It's okay to stay if that's what you think you need to do, but like there's nothing wrong with saying, this isn't for me, I'm gonna come home, I'm gonna try something else. And I think that goes along with like having options I think maybe one thing that would have gotten me home was like, having the option to go do something else. Like, whether that was like a volunteer trip or just traveling or whatever. Just like having options and being like, it's okay, there's no need to feel shame about your experience or anything like that. We don't even have to talk about it immediately when you get home. Counseling is a great option, but just having that support while they're there, which might be the last thing that they want to hear in the moment, but it does probably get through to them a little bit more than you would think.
Dr. Cam (27:24.582)
That's great. Sarah, thank you for jumping on and sharing your story. I really appreciate it.
Sarah Bruno-Patrey (27:27.318)
Of course
 
ABOUT THE SHOW:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your essential guide to navigating the complexities of adolescence with clarity and confidence. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist, the podcast provides practical strategies and expert insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional development. Whether you're an experienced parent or just starting your journey with teens, this podcast is packed with valuable information to help you thrive.
 
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