Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

How to Handle Teen Girl Friendship Drama: A Parent’s Guide to Healthy Relationships

In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Dr. Fiona Ghiglione to dive into the complex world of teen girl friendships. They discuss the challenges of peer pressure, loneliness, and relational aggression, as well as how parents can help their daughters build healthy, lasting relationships. Dr. Ghiglione shares practical strategies for navigating friendship drama, understanding the "seasons" of friendships, and teaching girls to handle social struggles with confidence. The episode also explores the impact of social media on teen friendships and why parents should focus on empowerment over rescue.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
Why teen girl friendships can be so challenging
How to help your daughter navigate friendship drama without taking over
The impact of relational aggression and social media on teen friendships
How to recognize the "seasons" of friendships and support your teen through them
Practical strategies to build your daughter’s confidence and resilience in friendships
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Teen friendships can be tough. Many girls struggle with peer pressure, loneliness, and relational aggression.
Middle school is peak friendship drama. Understanding these challenges helps parents guide their daughters effectively.
Friendships evolve over time. Teaching your teen about the different “seasons” of friendships can help them navigate change.
Create a safe space for open conversations. Encourage your daughter to express her feelings without immediately jumping in to fix problems.
Empower, don’t rescue. Equip your teen with tools to handle conflict, rather than solving issues for them.
 
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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Free Resource: Download 10 Mindful Practices for Preteens PDF
Exclusive Offer: Get €20 off your first mentoring session by emailing Fiona directly at fiona@motheringgirls.com
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Teen Friendships03:59 Understanding the Dynamics of Friendship Drama09:59 The Seasons of Friendships: Navigating Mean Behavior20:06 Supporting Our Daughters Through Friendship Struggles27:59 Empowering Girls to Build Healthy Relationships
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Fiona Ghiglione
Website: MotheringGirls.com
Instagram: @motheringgirls
LinkedIn: Dr. Fiona Ghiglione
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
THE FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:02)
Navigating friendships can be really challenging for our teen girls, right? As parents, it's tough to watch them struggle with feelings of loneliness, peer pressure, and the occasional friend drama or a lot of friend drama. All we want is for our daughters to feel happy, connected, and surrounded by friends who truly support them. I'm excited to introduce you to Dr. Fiona Giglione, an assistant professor, educator, and the founder of Mothering Girls.
 
Fiona specializes in coaching girls on building friendships, boosting self-confidence, and navigating the complexities of social media too. In our conversation today, we're going to dive into some effective strategies to help empower our daughters to build meaningful friendships, handle toxic friendships, and boost their confidence as a friend. Welcome Dr. Fiona, how are you?
 
Fiona (00:50)
Very good. Thank you for inviting me today. It's wonderful to be here.
 
Dr. Cam (00:54)
Absolutely. So Dr. Fiona, first start with how did you, what inspired you to start mothering girls?
 
Fiona (01:02)
Well, my journey with mother and girls really started through my own experience raising my own girls. And there's one specific experience I had when my eldest daughter was nine and my youngest daughter was five. I was living in Singapore at the time and I just began noticing that the commentary and the way that people were interacting with our girls, my daughters and also their friends started changing quite radically. know, when they were five and six and they were running around in their frozen dresses, people's commentaries would be, aren't they wonderful? You know, I love her confidence and her spark or how wonderful is it to have girls? And I just found that when the girls started kind of edging towards the preteen years, so we kind of, eight, nine, sure, they had a bit more sass, you know.
 
But the commentary, just, was very aware of what people were saying and how it was changing. It was, it was kind of becoming more, you know, wait until she's in the teen years or, you know, girls are really emotional and, know, and I was hearing from boy moms saying, you know, I'm glad, glad I don't have boys, you know. And as a research psychologist, I suppose, like I,
 
I couldn't stop thinking about this. couldn't stop and wonder two questions in particular I had in my head. Like the first one was, what is this doing to our girls? Like our girls were hearing this, know, mom's talk in this way. And I'm thinking, what messages are they receiving from this? You know, about what it is to be a girl heading into these years, like you know what are the teen years going to be like, but also just their emotions, you know, is it safe to, you know, explore my emotions, say my emotions or not? Anyway, that was the first question. And then the second question that kept on my mind was, if we take this fear based approach, if we're really going into these years afraid and thinking they're going to be the worst, what's that doing to our relationship with our girls? I mean, we know about what happens in the prefrontal cortex or in our brains in general, when we are under, you know, a fear response, we close off, we change the way that we change what we're paying attention to. We change, you know, how we're feeling about each other and we're we're less curious. So I guess I just started leaning into this. started researching a little bit more and thinking about it a bit more and thinking we need a different way. We definitely needed a different narrative, but I wanted to be able to maybe fill the gap a little bit and help parents do it a bit differently and help, you know, kind of empower the girls. Yeah.
 
Dr. Cam (03:50)
I love that. that's one thing too, Dr. Fiona, that I will talk about too, is that when we go into the teen years with this preconceived notion of what those teen years are going to be like, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because we approach it already without understanding, we approach it with assumption, and it goes way south very quickly. So I love that you are out there correcting that assumption, changing that story so we don't approach it from that perspective and we give our girls a chance. That's amazing. So let's, today we really want to talk about friendships because I know this particularly is difficult for teen, tween and teen girls, especially middle school. Middle school is like friendship hell. Let's just put it real, right? This is where all the friendship drama comes. There's a lot of friendship, like emotional bullying.
 
Fiona (04:31)
Yeah, absolutely. 100%.
 
Dr. Cam (04:58)
My daughter personally went through a lot of drama and teen. She's 18. She's still traumatized by the experience of friendships and going bad. So first explain to us, why do friendships become so difficult at this age for girls?
 
Fiona (05:05)
If we look at the research, there are a few things that we're seeing, okay. We're seeing, and some of them are quite concerning trends, I would have to say. We're seeing increases in relational aggression. We're seeing increases in a kind of narcissism, self-centeredness, increases in loneliness, and decreases in empathy, okay. So, when you put this all together and you put it in alongside the rise of technology, it makes for a very curious picture as to like, what is going on with our girls? And girls in general, like, they place a lot of emphasis on friendships. It's very important for them. And I think that there's all of that happening, but then there's also, when I'm talking to girls directly, girls want closer friendships. They want less drama. It's not like they want, you know, they're creating this because it's fun. So there's these two things happening in parallel. They want closer friendship, they want support, they want help, and they also want a good relationship with parents as well.
It's hard to unpack exactly why this is happening. think technology is playing a big factor in it, in the way that it's changing relationships and the way that we communicate. But yeah, I guess alongside the challenges that we're facing, we also have girls who are willing to do it differently if they have the guidance and the support.
 
Dr. Cam (06:56)
At this age too, the relationships become a lot more complex, right? It's no longer like, you like this toy and I like this toy, so we must be friends. The dynamics become much deeper and kids are trying to figure out. And as you mentioned, the need to belong becomes extremely important at this age. So making friends, basically kids look at them, their value based on do other people like me? And so when people, when they're struggling to make friends, they're getting this message, I'm not that likable. And so they kind of get deeper. But then there's also the kids. So we've got self-esteem issues there, but then we've got the kids, particularly the girls that are mean. Where does this meanness come from and this need to kind of gang up on other girls or to emotionally shut them out sometimes. Where does that come from?
 
Fiona (07:54)
I just wanted to stop for a second and just say it is such a difficult thing to watch your child go through this. And heartbreaking almost to have girls come home and say things like, you know, I was alone on the playground today or, you know, my friends created a WhatsApp group and they left me, so just being able to hear this is so, so hard for us as parents to know how to help. And we are shocked as to like why girls are so mean. And it can, you know, obviously be amplified by the fact that, you know, if we've had meanness when we were younger, you know, that can be even more difficult for us. So, but I'm a very big believer that friendships in middle school and high school are also an amazing training ground for relationships in life. Okay. And we know that in life, there are plenty of mean people and there are plenty of people who do mean things, right? And so one of the ways that I try to explain it to the families that I work with is that friendships have different seasons. And if we are to help our girls understand why people doing these different things, understand the behaviors that might come up. And also know how to deal with them. We need to have specific nuanced tools for different parts of different seasons that they're gonna go through and they're gonna face. And mean behavior is one of those. You can understand like mean behavior is winter. Winter is where there's storms and serious challenges and so we need to be able to really give girls tools to be able to deal with mean behavior. And so, know, mean behavior is relational aggression. We know that girls do that a lot more than boys leaving, you know, leaving other girls out gossip, you know, and bullying, you know, bullying falls under this winter category of like really toxic behavior of, you know, on purpose power differential repetitive kind of behaviours.  
 
Dr. Cam (10:19)
One of the things I see is that bullying almost comes from the same place of the needing to belong because it is a way when you join forces with other people to make this other person the scapegoat, you're connecting with them. So it's an unhealthy way to connect because someone gets, but the underlying need is exactly the same, which is why it's very hard to stop that because they're getting their needs filled by connecting with somebody. So I love this idea of the different weathers and talking to our kids about our friendships are going to go through different seasons. Help us understand how to help our kids, especially when, let's talk about the different seasons. So we're going through a season where all of a sudden it feels like your friends are turning against you. You're like, they were my friend.
 
Fiona (10:51)
100%.
 
Dr. Cam (11:13)
Now someone else came into the dynamic and is taking them away or they're saying mean things to me. How do we help our girls address that? That's a hard one for parents too because we're like, I just want to fix it.
 
Fiona (11:26)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think the first thing to really delve into is to inquire, right? We need to spend some serious time with our girls inquiring, okay, tell me what did that look like? What was it like at lunchtime? What did you do? What did your friends do? And trying to unpack instead, rather than jumping in and judging and, that's it, I'm gonna, mama bear I'm going to fix this problem for you. We want to inquire first. We want to get a good picture of what's going on, you know, and in part of that picture, we also want to understand like what's going on for our daughter as well, you know. And then of course, you know, we want to empathise with her and really help her understand that if she's feeling left out and she, you know, she's feeling sad, like that is a normal reaction to that kind of behaviour. You know, I would feel that way and sitting with that for a while, you know, so that she has that kind of, she has that person that really is helping her process it in a different way, right? But I think a lot of like, it depends on how toxic, what the toxicity is, right? I mean, I think there's two ways that I teach girls that they can deal with toxic behavior. First one is like a quick comeback, you know, having those things that we can say to other girls who are doing things on purpose, you know, quick comeback like, Whoa, that was harsh. Being able to get out of the situation if they need and giving themselves permission to be able to leave. And obviously if things are extreme, girls, and this is part of educating around winter is that those red flags, if you see those red flags, this is time where you need help. You need to get someone to come in and help you with these things.
 
When we're looking at some of the other seasons like, know, friendship conflicts, there is a difference between friendship conflicts. Yeah. And they need to, if they understand what autumn is and they understand what winter is, you know, friendship conflicts will happen because we're complex human beings and we like, we will have different interests and we will have different opinions. And, know, these things come up a lot in with girls, right? You know, one wants to play this one wants to play that or you know, misinterpretation of things that they've said at school. And so it is also really important for our girls to be able to learn to kind of step away and think about that. Like, you know, take five is a teacher, a lot of the girls that I work with just take five, leave the situation if you can think about this, if it's not an urgent situation, if it's not a dangerous situation, everything can wait five minutes or overnight even before you respond. And to really be able to like, you know, to think about what did you want? What did she want? You know, what is going on here? Like what is the conflict about and trying to help girls unpack that, you know? Yeah. And I think the interesting thing is that like, you know, they're confused. That's where the relationship with us comes in. Right? Like we need to be building foundations early in the preteens that our girls feel comfortable coming to us. They feel like it's a safe space. They're not going to be judged, that they're not going to be burdened with solutions from us, that they can come and they can process these things and find solutions in the vicinity of like us.
 
Dr. Cam (14:51)
I think the big thing I see too is when we're going through this, and I like the quick comebacks. I saw an interview with Christine Chenoweth the other day and she learned to just say, I'm going to pray for you. When people said nasty things, she would just reply, well, I will pray for you. And it just kind of threw people off because it was like, But I think also understanding how we can help support our kids, having that connection with them so that they learn not to create this as part of their identity as I'm not a good friend or I'm not likable and change it to I'm a good friend, I'm likable, they're not the right person for me. How do we help them distinguish that so they don't create this low self-esteem because they can't keep some of these toxic friendships?
 
Fiona (15:45)
I think that's where, it's so important for us as parents to keep budding new connections, like, and give them as many friendship experiences as possible. Because if you think about it, like if that's the only experience of relating, right. And that's, and it's negative and that's all they're getting, then of course it's easy to see that you're the generalization that you're going to be making is that there's something wrong with me. Now, if you've got plenty of different friendship groups and in some of those groups they celebrate you and they lift you up and they think you're amazing and then in other groups not so much. Then you can start to generalise, okay hold on, wait, but if I'm okay there then it couldn't be me because you've got these other experiences and I feel like sometimes it goes wrong because we put so much emphasis on this one best friend or this group of friends. And our girls, you know, don't have that diversity of experience. mean, it's also good for them to just learn how to relate to different people, right? In different settings and have that experience as well. And it's doing great things for their brain as well.  
 
Dr. Cam (17:07)
It's very important to do that. know, I mean, like I said, my daughter had so much trauma in a certain friendship group in middle school, but what she came out of was, how do I recognize a good friend from a not good friend? And so her friendships now are incredible. It's a small group and it's people that support her for her. And so she was able to come through that getting a very important skill and I think it's helping our kids learn that. One thing I think parents come from though and we fear a little bit is when we see our kids struggling with friendships, that taps into our fear. Like, how is my kid not going to be liked? What do I need to do? And we start focusing very hard on making them more likable to people. Like, how do I fix my kid to be more likable? I've seen this, you know, a lot. Well, their behavior needs to change. Is that okay? Should we be doing that or what message is that sending to our kids?
 
Fiona (18:14)
Yeah, I tried really hard to stray away from the whole likeability, you know, concept. But what I do talk to girls a lot about is, you know, and this happens, what I find is girls are often very lonely, even if they're in friendship, sometimes they feel this loneliness, right? And so I ask them when, because they want more connection. So when do you feel the most connected? And when do you feel the least connected? what's happening and we unpack that a little bit. So instead of focusing on, on likability, focusing on quality, the quality of the relationship of like, of what does it give her? How does she feel, you know, and helping her, it's almost, it's a little bit of like of an experiment really. It's like helping her think about this on a regular basis means that, you know, sometimes my daughter will come home and she said today, mom, I had a great friendship day because you know, my friend, you know, said something nice to me or whatever. And I'd say, well, you know, that sounds like you really felt like you were connected in that moment. And over time we unpack like those. And so she'll look for that more, you know, if she feels more connected when she's talking about something that she really loves with a friend, you know, or they're doing something specific together, then you, can look for more of those kinds of moments. And that's where you see your girls light up and have that spark, you know, in friendships. and then she'll stay away from the red flag, the things that don't connect her. there's a whole, we could have a whole talk on like technology and friendships. But friendship, there's so much to unpack about connections online. And I talked to my daughter about how did you feel when you were talking to your friends online? How do you feel when you're at face-to-face doing things face-to-face? There's a really different feeling that you get when you're speaking in these different apps or whatever versus having real life connections. So I think it's important to focus on that for the girls.
 
Dr. Cam (20:16)
There's so many pieces to this. Can we do a quick kind of step by step? Your daughter comes home, she's really upset, she's having friend drama, her friends are being mean. What do parents do in that moment?
 
Fiona (20:37)
I think the first thing to do is to go get a tea and to take her to a spot that she feels comfortable in and to just give her time to talk about it. No advice, no, you know, we can ask questions, but just let her talk and get it out and be a safe space for that. you know, I feel like it's really important for her to express all of that emotion and get it all out, but I think sometimes there's a point at which you can, there can be co-rumination, right? Like you're talking about it so much that you're not, there's, there's, not going anywhere. So I think at some stage it's good to kind of pivot to what would you like to do about this? You know, what can we, what's in your control? What, let's think about some things that you could do. Some things you can say, do you need extra support? You know, let's make a plan kind of thing together. 
 
Dr. Cam (21:34)
Nothing in that was, let's fix this, let's go yell at the other parents, let's go make sure that you get to be friends. Like there's no pressure to have to have friends. And I think that's one of the things I see a lot, that parents get so worried if their kids are struggling with friends, that it becomes more about how do I get my kid to have friends rather than how do I help my kid just feel okay as they are right now. And once they feel confident, making friends is a lot easier, but feeling the pressure to make friends when you're not feeling good about yourself just makes you feel worse about yourself. So I love that it's just, just let them talk, validate what they're feeling, let them go through it. And then what's in your control. that's spot on perfect. I love it.
 
Fiona (22:12)
100%. What is really interesting with the, you know, what you were saying about jumping in and calling friends, you know, the parents of the friends which happened, you know, we want to do, but what can happen, and it's happened with me many times with my girls, is that that same friend, you know, can move into a different season with our daughters and they become best friends, you know, and they work it out on their own or, know, and so this little girl that like, you know, was doing all these main things and then she's coming over to my house and spending like afternoons at my house and I see a totally different side to her. So I feel like if we jump in too soon, she misses the learning that comes from it, but also you never know what's gonna happen with these friendships and these girls, like they're just learning.
 
Dr. Cam (23:11)
It is such a good point. Like, we can't take sides. We can't beat up the other girl because you're right, they may become friends and then that's all. But we also don't want to sit there and just take our kid's side. Like, we don't want to make sure we take the other kid's side too and be like, well, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? And take the kid's perspective that is being mean to our kid or is pushing them away because then our kid doesn't feel like we're on their side. No sides are taken. We're just listening.
 
Very important, yeah. I think we get tempted to talk about, and I've even done this, like kind of put the other person down going, well, they don't deserve you as a friend, but that is not a good move either. Tempting.
 
Fiona (23:54)
Yeah, it's really complex. you know, and there are a lot of ands. I talked to the girls about this as well. you know, what are you feeling? And what is she feeling? And sometimes it's even what are you feeling? And she will say sad and angry and kind of, you know, like there's so much complexity. It just goes on and on. And so I think it's important to see that it is more than just what she's feeling. It's what other girl's feeling it's what the context is you know so there's a lot of ends there to be able to explore as well with her yeah.
 
Dr. Cam (24:25)
That's a great way to do it because it is important for them to look at the other side because it's easy to just get stuck. But we can do it the way you're saying it is a way to do it without taking sides. It's just helping them dig a little bit deeper. So what have we missed? I wanted to ask you. So what happens if your kid, your daughter is the one being mean to somebody else? How do we address that?
 
Fiona (24:54)
Well, I think that that can be very difficult because sometimes we don't see that. And so where do we get the information from? So if it's something that, you know, a parent, a teacher has observed, I think then then we have some good data to be able to go to and say, look, this is this seems to be what's happening. Tell me about this. Like what happened? And I think we always need to give our girls the opportunity to be able to speak for themselves because it's very easy to misinterpret. And also where's the learning in it, right? We want our girls to be able to not feel judged and shamed about the whole thing, but we wanna understand like, you know, what was going on so that we can then help prevent it in the future. So always starting obviously with just asking her about it. And I think it's the same kind of process. It's you've got to want it. You want to sit with the other emotions. Maybe she was feeling angry, you know, and then, and you know, talking about what she did and how effective that was in getting what she wanted. and then being able to unpack, like, what would you do differently? You know? but you know, sometimes if I guess, if it's repetitive, you want to get some professional help to be able to get help her kind of break that habit and dig a bit deeper as to what's going on..
 
Dr. Cam (26:13)
It's so what you were saying is so important. It's about getting to the why of why they're doing it rather than the assumption of, my gosh, my kid is becoming a bully and bad kid. And now I'm going to be just show them my disappointment in that behavior and try to punish them because they need to stop that behavior. And we're not addressing what's actually going on underneath. So we could be actually piling more on the very thing that's making them feel like they need to bully and making it worse rather than making it better. So I love that we're giving them the benefit of the doubt and understanding what is this coping mechanism or what is the purpose of doing this? What are they getting from it? Because it may be a sense of belonging, right?
 
Fiona (26:45)
Absolutely. And I think, but I also think that, you know, these kinds of behaviors sometimes come, these impulsive behaviors come from a sense of not being able to regulate your emotion, right? Like you can feel really scary, especially to an eight or a nine year old, to have this huge angry emotion to something that's happened to them, right? And they don't know where to take that, what to do with that. And that's why I think I'm such a big advocate for, know, mindfulness in terms of being able to give them the tools to be able to bring their nervous system back into a parasympathetic kind of state so that they then have the capacity to be able to think clearly in these situations. But yeah, it's tough.
 
Dr. Cam (27:39)
That's really important. So of all that we've talked about, what is the big action item or takeaway that parents need to have from this to help their daughters navigate their tricky friendships?
 
Fiona (27:59)
Look, I think that don't underestimate how important you are as a parent, like, and how much role overall you're going to play in being able to guide them to, have healthy relationships, not just friendships, but relationships down the track. Like we are coaching them through this. are like, we are a secure base and we don't want to join the storm. want to like, just, we want them to come to us and ground them and help them learn something really valuable from that. Right.
 
So all of these things are important teaching moments. And I think that like we shouldn't underestimate just how important we are and how much the girls want us to come to us to be able to talk to us about these things. So we need to be really be showing them from early that it is safe, it's okay. And that we are here to kind of, know, give them the tools that they need, suppose. Yeah.
 
Dr. Cam (28:53)
Don't join the storm. That's awesome. That's exactly it. Don't join the storm. Be the center. Be the part that helps outside. Calm the storm. Let them be the calming space for them to calm their storm. Love that. Amazing. Dr. Fiona, where can people find you?
 
Fiona (28:56)
Don't join the storm. You can find me on Instagram at motheringgirls and I think, will you share my website? Yeah.
 
Dr. Cam (29:20)
I will put all the links in the show notes for sure. Thank you.
 
Fiona (29:23)
Yeah, and I have a friendship journal that kind of guides girls through the different stages of friendship. So it has some tools, has some tips, and lots of fillable pages so that they can reflect on their own friendships along the way.
 
Dr. Cam (29:28)
That's fantastic. I will definitely include that link too. It sounds like a really great tool. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Fiona. Appreciate it.
 
Fiona (29:48)
You're welcome. Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful.
 
ABOUT THE SHOW
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you're struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.
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Empowering Girls: Combating Gender Bias & Sexism for a Confident Future

Dr. Cam and Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein take a deep dive into the impact of gender bias and sexism on young girls. They discuss how societal messages affect girls' confidence, self-worth, and opportunities. Dr. Finkelstein shares powerful insights on validating girls' experiences, teaching self-advocacy, and redefining their value beyond appearance. The conversation also highlights the importance of helping girls express emotions like anger, recognize microaggressions, and take up space in a world that often tries to shrink them. Plus, they explore how parents can raise empathetic sons who challenge gender norms.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How gender bias and societal expectations impact girls' confidence
Why teaching girls to express anger and take up space is crucial
The power of validating girls’ experiences and building self-advocacy skills
How to raise sons who recognize and challenge gender bias
Practical ways parents can help their daughters navigate sexism
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Girls receive constant messages of invisibility and unworthiness. Parents play a key role in reshaping these narratives.
Validating girls' experiences is essential. It helps them feel heard and strengthens their self-esteem.
Teaching girls self-advocacy starts early. Encouraging them to speak up and set boundaries builds confidence.
Society often prioritizes masculine traits. It’s important to teach girls (and boys) that all traits have value.
Empowering girls requires action. Parents must actively challenge bias, model emotional expression, and foster resilience.
 
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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Free Resource: Download 10 Mindful Practices for Preteens PDF
Exclusive Offer: Work with Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein by visiting Jo-Ann Finkelstein
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Understanding Gender Bias and Its Impact06:05 Empowering Girls in a Biased World14:10 Redefining Value Beyond Appearance19:07 Building Confidence and Advocacy Skills22:11 Empowering Girls to Express Emotions25:00 Teaching Girls to Take Up Space28:25 Recognizing and Addressing Microaggressions32:49 Navigating Gender Bias and Self-Advocacy37:11 Raising Empathetic Sons42:24 Key Takeaways for Parents
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein 
Website: Jo-Ann Finkelstein
Instagram: @JoAnnFinkelstein
LinkedIn: Jo-Ann Finkelstein
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
THE FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam (00:00)
In today's episode, we tackle a critical issue that affects countless young girls, sexism and gender bias. Did you know that as of 2023, women still earn about 82 cents for every dollar earned by men or that women hold just 27 % of executive positions in Fortune 500 companies despite making up nearly half of the workforce? The reality is that gender bias starts early and can significantly impact girls' confidence, opportunities and futures. That's why I'm looking forward to talking to Dr. Joanne Finkelstein, a clinical psychologist and author of Sexism and Sensibility, Raising Empowered Resilient Girls in the Modern World. Dr. Finkelstein is here to share practical strategies for protecting our daughters from these pervasive issues, fostering their resilience and empowering them to navigate a world where gender bias still unfortunately exists.
 
Welcome Dr.. Finkelstein.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (00:59)
It's so great to be here, Dr. Cam.
 
Dr. Cam (01:02)
So good to have you. So this is such an important topic. Let's start first. Why are you interested in this? What kind of inspired you to talk about and help girls deal with gender bias and sexism?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (01:16)
I grew up in Canada. You know, I live in the States, but I grew up in Canada with three brothers. Canada, know, hockey is a national obsession. So I like to tell this story because it didn't make it into the book, but it has become family lore. And my family was really surprised that it didn't make it into the book. In any case. My three brothers, like they love to play hockey and I wanted to play too. So I asked my parents for, you know, a hockey stick. And to my delight, they bought me one. But to my horror, it was bright pink and looked like a toy version of my brother's. And by the way, you will find out along the way, I don't have anything against pink, but that is not what I was looking for, right?
 
Dr. Cam (01:47)
But it was a big statement.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (02:09)
It was a big statement and I've worked with girls and women for the last 24 plus years in my private practice. And what I discovered is that my pink hockey stick is every girl's story, right? Girls constantly get messages that make them feel unseen, unheard, not taken seriously. And I witness, right, on a daily basis how harmful these messages are to my patient's sense of self and sense of potential. The messages aret hey seem small, right? But they're like tiny psychological paper cuts that accumulate and become these festering wounds of self-doubt over time. And growing up, when I would get upset about gender differences, people insisted that they didn't exist or they'd say, you're too sensitive or stop being so dramatic. And all your listeners out there, they know this, right? Because they're classic comments. But at the time, I didn't know that. So in any case,
 
Fast forward to avoid criticism, I learned to hide my feelings and it wasn't until years later when I was doing a master's degree that I really began to understand that experience. And it happened because I mentioned in a paper for my developmental psychology class that I'd been accused of overreacting when I felt demeaned. And the professor scribbled in the margins, that's what people say to talk girls out of their feelings. It was such a validating moment for me.
 
Dr. Cam (03:34)
That's great.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (03:35)
So basically, to get to a long story, validating girls' experiences and opening parents' eyes to the effects of sexism and gender bias are why I wrote the book. There two reasons why I
 
Dr. Cam (03:50)
I love that. And I think awareness is so important because I see even women being biased and sexist to other women because it is so great, you know, just pounded in our head. And I can remember, because I mean, anybody that is an adult woman has either experienced most likely a lot or knows people that have experienced extreme sexism and gender bias. And I remember pointing out at one point at a job that the traits of a leader as defined of what a leader is are traits that define the typical best traits of a man and what defines a bitch as a woman. You're, you, you have no chance. Yeah, you have no chance of being a leader because if you're a woman and have the traits of a leader, then you are disliked so much. So it's,
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (04:32)
That is exactly right. And it's true. I mean, it's bears out in the research. Right, or if you do become a leader, right, you are jumping through so many hoops to not be perceived as a bitch and then often you are, are, you know, sort of like what's happening with Kamala Harris and, you know, people are saying you're too soft. So you really are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
Dr. Cam (04:49)
I think calling attention to these and also calling attention and they've shown so many times that actually some of the traits that are typical, there are gender differences. We've got to be real with that. But I think what it is is what we value is more of the masculine and what we use is insults. Like you fight like a girl, you run like a girl, you do this like a girl. They're insults rather than showing some of the strengths that are typical feminine traits actually are amazing in different roles, but we undermine them. So let's start with, we've got our teen daughter and she's living in high school and she's getting these messages already. We already know that STEM is still something that girls are kind of looked over on. We know that, again, the sports are separated, everything like that. So how do we as parents start empowering our girls to see their worth?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (05:42)
That's a great question. And that's sort of my whole book. So let's unpack it. You know, I think the most important thing to remember is that we're playing the long game here. We can't just say, you know, the culture's broken, you're not broken. Right. But we we want them to understand that many of the messages that they're getting are informing their choices.
 
Dr. Cam (06:08)
Good! Let's go! Read to us your book!
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (06:34)
For instance, clothing. I know a lot of people are really interested when their kids are becoming teenagers about their wearing crop tops and showing a lot of cleavage and wearing heels before parents are ready for the kids to wear heels and all of that. And so we're trying to help them understand, we're between wanting them to make their own choices, feel good in their own bodies, embrace their budding sexuality, or at least be unashamed of it. But seeing themselves through a system that values them, that values women packaged for a marketplace of male desire leaves little room for pimples and tummy rolls. So we're trying to help them understand that As I once said to my daughter, a crop top or a cigar is just a cigar, but a crop top Brazilian wax and something else is, you know, not as free choice as it seems. And so over time, we're trying to help them see that the culture doesn't always respect women, that the culture values their their appearance and their sexuality over all of their other characteristics and that we're not going to let that happen and that we want them to see, we want them to make their own choices, we understand that feeling good in their body is really important and that nobody should be able to take that away from them. But at times it makes them unsafe, it makes them a target, and it makes them focus more on their bodies than on other things in their life that are important.
 
Dr. Cam (08:34)
Now, Dr. Drew, I want to unpack this a little bit because I think this is something that I, as a mom of a daughter, I've struggled with a lot because even in that, when our kids want to wear whatever is popular, right? And it is. They like to wear these cute little crop tops and they want to wear these things. we're like, you can't wear those because those sexualize you. But that's sexist right there because who are they sexualizing them to men? So we now have to change the way we dress to accommodate What men may think of us rather than to dress the way we feel comfortable and confident in that upsets me The focus is more on you can't wear something that might tempt some guy rather than teaching our men Not to treat women like that like women have to protect themselves rather than teaching men not to mistreat women. Why is that? You can tell I'm passionate about that.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (09:38)
Well, yeah, I mean, and I am too, and I'm glad to hear that in your voice because it's really not fair. And I think what we want parents, first of all, to understand is that people in everything or women in everything from bikinis to burkas are harassed or assaulted. So there's no research that shows that there is an association between what you wear and being assaulted. But we do want kids to understand that they may be treated differently. They may be seen as not as smart. And so we, you know, I think we can say to them exactly what you just said. It's not fair. You should not be responsible for anybody else's reactions to you. And I want you to know that you might be.
 
And so they're making the choices of how they dress from an informed place. And you know, by the way, most of the kids, until at least their later teens, what kids tell me all the time is, I'm not dressing for guys. And they're really not, right? They're dressing for their peers. They're dressing because that's the trend. This is what teen brands are selling. And they wanna fit in.
 
Dr. Cam (10:58)
They feel empowered when they wear this outfit. They feel empowered. And I think them being able to show who they are and feel empowered is so important. So I'm curious from your perspective, is it more important to say you shouldn't wear that because this might be how people see you or you should wear that because you feel empowered? Here's how to handle it when people treat you poorly.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (11:29)
I mean, I think it's really, you I don't like to tell people how to parent, but I, I, yes, we could forbid them to wear clothes they like and that help them fit in, but that does little for our relationship with them, Right, and it makes it us against, you know, rather than make it us against the culture, it makes it us against them. And the fight.
 
Dr. Cam (11:45)
or for their confidence.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (11:56)
over autonomy in general and clothing in particular, it just harms too many parent relationships. you know, my mantra is to educate, not control. And again, the long game over time, we want them to understand that the world is trying to package them in a certain way. And we want them to tune into what makes them feel good, what makes them comfortable. And so what makes them comfortable in the beginning is fitting in, right? And so, you know, if, so if they're gonna wear that, you know, and you normally don't want it, like as they're walking out the door, if you say something, you will shame them and they will be conscious of their body. So it's like, we want to be having these conversations in advance and like throughout the book I talk about all of the ways we can have conversations with our kids that are more abstract, that don't target them, that help them think in critical ways. And so yeah, you might say, I wouldn't tie it to the clothes, but I would say just being a girl, you might be walking to the store, you might be walking to a friend's house and you might get catcalled. Or how do you feel when you get catcalled, you know, depending on the age of the kid.
 
And you start a conversation about things that you can do, right? And there are ways we, there are often the safest thing to do is to just have them walk on, to ignore it. Sometimes that can escalate it because they want a reaction. So maybe you nod, but of course, a lot of kids and a lot of women, right? After the fact, they're like, I wish I had said this. I wish I had said that. And so you might give them three things that they can have up their sleeve if they deem it to be safe enough, like the guy's on the third floor and your ride is pulling up, then you can say, you know, is that the way you talk to your mom? Whatever it is, there's a variety of ways that I outline in the book that they can respond to a cat caller or to somebody who's making them feel bad about just existing.
 
Dr. Cam (13:59)
I'm thinking as we're talking about this, go, we right now are falling into the sexism, gender bias trap because we went right to appearance when we're talking about women. We did. We're women. We went right there. So how do we help our kids, our girls see themselves as far more valuable than their appearance and help them because right now when we protect our girls from so much, we're just continuing the sexism because we're protecting them from what's out there rather than helping them and helping them break through it. Right? So how do we empower our girls to see themselves for the value that they are, which is not this surface level appearance, which the world leads us to believe is our only value.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (15:13)
Right. And one of the reasons we went right there is because globally speaking, girls believe their most important asset is their appearance. Right. They're seeing it all over television. So, you know, one of the things is starting from when they're very young, we just don't comment on their appearance. And I know it's very natural to do that, A, because it's so ingrained in us.  
 
Dr. Cam (15:21)
Of course, because that's what they've grown up to learn.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (15:41)
be because they just are so cute to us, right? And so we want to say, you're so beautiful. But, know, always be body neutral. Don't focus on their body as much as possible. When you do focus on their body, make it about what their bodies can do, how they function, not how they look, right? You can start with your own body. my gosh, you have a dog that loves to be chased. Like I'm so lucky that I have these really strong legs that allow me to chase Rover, you know? What can your body do? And then as they get older, because we're talking about adolescents now, right, you're focusing on their character, their effort that they make, things that they weren't born with necessarily, or that they can apply in a mirror. 
Let's say there are times we can tell our kids they're beautiful, right? I mean, you don't want to like suppress it all of the time. There are times when. Well, you know what the thing is, it does.
 
Dr. Cam (17:17)
Yeah, because then they think they're ugly. If you're never told that they're beautiful, they'll go right to, must be ugly.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (17:26)
Well, the thing is the rest of the world is doing that for us. They're always commenting on their cute outfit and their cute nose. And so I think parents really don't have to fill in that much in that area. But what they can do, like if they've just had a big belly laugh with their daughter and they say, you are so beautiful, or they've just had this like incredible discussion about climate change and they say, you are so beautiful, then she knows you mean all of her.
 
And when they're balled up in tears and they're saying, I'm ugly, of course it's our natural instinct to say, what are you talking about? You are so beautiful. But that just sort of emphasizes that pretty is important. And we don't want to do that. And they don't believe us anyway, because if they think they're ugly, they're getting the message from their peers. They're getting messages from social media that they don't fit some standard. And so really we want to talk to them about there's these crazy standards out there.
 
Dr. Cam (18:08)
Correct.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (18:26)
and you may fit them or you may not fit them, but that's not what's important. What's important is that you, you know, and it's like, of course you want to fit in, you want to be beautiful. I personally think you're incredibly beautiful, but that's something you have to come to know on your own, right? Because they're just, they're not going to believe us if we just say you're beautiful. They don't.
 
Dr. Cam (18:47)
So what are some skills that we want to help our girls develop that sometimes gets overlooked with girls to help empower them to be that, to be a strong human being, to be a confident human being and to self advocate. That's a big one.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (19:06)
That's a big one. Yeah, I think one of the things that I talk about in the book is that girls don't grow up with a healthy sense of entitlement, right? When we think of the word entitlement, we usually think of it pejoratively, like it's somebody who's too demanding. But girls are actually not demanding enough. And that, Dr. Kam, starts in third grade. Really, there's research that shows by third grade girls stop asking for as much as boys, especially when they're negotiating with a man, right? So in one, they're negotiating for their favorite stickers and they can ask for anything they want, but they ask for two fewer than boys do. And here's the kicker, this reflects the gender gap in negotiation that we see in adulthood, right? So yes, we want, there's all kinds of fit all kinds of ways that we can that we are teaching them not to do that. And there are all kinds of ways that we can like I like to call it our and our parenting replace or recognize and replace. And so one of the things we can do is make sure you brought up advocating, right? Make sure that they're advocating for themselves. When they go out for dinner at the restaurant when they're at the vet. if they have a question, right? And you're working up to, from the time they're little, with them being able to speak out loud and hear their own voices. The other thing we do is we teach them to be likable more than we teach them to have the need for respect.
 
Another thing, they don't feel entitled to money. Right? Why? Because we don't talk to girls about money as much as we talk to boys. We actually don't pay them as much for chores, research shows. We don't save as much for college. I know. And one more thing is voice, right? Which is also what you're getting at with advocating is why don't we, why don't they feel as entitled to have a voice because we interrupt them. Men and women interrupt women more, right? And so if you live, if you have a daughter and there are men in the house, statistically speaking, she is being interrupted more than her brother. And so we can say, hey, wait a minute, I noticed you were being interrupted or, you know, just sort of alert brother when he's dominating the conversation and you can teach her it's okay to speak up. You will be interrupted in life. That is sometimes what happens. And we need to help you speak up because your voice is really important and what you have to say is very meaningful.
 
Dr. Cam (22:10)
I think that is so key because when we're raising kids, when we're raising girls, as parents, we have to make sure we listen to their voice too. I think we shut them down, especially if they sound like they're whining or they're sad, we shut down their sadness. We definitely shut down anger. One thing I've noticed is that girls struggle to express anger. It goes into tears. I know personally that's what I do because anger wasn't allowed for girls. so giving them freedom to be angry and express that anger right there, I think is so empowering.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (22:48)
Yes, I'm so glad you said that because, you know, good is the gold standard for girls in a way it isn't for boys and anger is not good. Right. And so I actually had a mom contact me after she read the book. Recently, she emailed me and said, I just read your book. And my God, I realized that I was shutting down my daughter's anger and strong opinions more than my sons, even though my son is more critical, even though my son has stronger opinions. And so what she did is she went to her daughter and said, I think this is what's happening. And I don't know why it's happening. I think maybe, you know, girls aren't supposed to have strong opinions. I know that girls with strong opinions often get shut down. So I'm having this like internalized sexist reaction. And her daughter started to cry from the recognition because she knew something was off. She would complain mom didn't listen to her, but it wasn't quite that. And so there was this real reparative moment where her mom could say, I'm doing this. And then, you know, it opens up space for the daughter to say, hey, mom, I think this is happening rather if it happens again, rather than it turn into this big fight, you never listen and stomp out of the room. And so, yeah, when one of the ways that I outline is tolerating girls' tolerating their anger, right? Which doesn't mean tolerating rudeness, but it does mean knowing that you get uncomfortable with their anger.
 
Dr. Cam (24:19)
It's so important because women need to know that they can say no. I think women get raised to be people pleasers because they get in less trouble when they just comply. I don't see men apologize for every little thing as much as I see women apologizing for like everything. I think women learn to make themselves small so they don't get in the way of other people.
 
How do we teach our girls to take up space?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (24:59)
I'm writing a sub-staff newsletter right now about modesty, because when we hear the word modesty, we sort of think of it as like so last century with like the long dresses and the high collars. Right. And but really there are all these other ways that we're teaching behavioral modesty, right? So that we and that's all part of being good, right? We ask girls to downplay their accomplishments so that they don't seem conceited. We ask them to, you know, for like the gentle handshakes and the soft-spokenness, like they're rewarded for that because it's so feminine, right? And so there's, we expect this demureness from them and that infiltrates everything. And so when they do speak up or when they do have something they want to say or do, they apologize first. Like, I'm so sorry that I want this or I'm so sorry that I need this, right? 
 
Dr. Cam (26:10)
It's hard. I, I noticed even with me, I will giggle after I say something that is either controversial or anything like that, just to, and I hate when I do that because I don't want to do it, but I, it's so instinctual to soften whatever I just said, to kind of, it is, it is my apology. It's my way apologizing for saying something that I don't need to apologize for.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (26:27)
I wrote a book about sexism and I still find myself people pleasing. And it's like it's it's because, you know, it's something that right from the time kids are little, we are rewarding girls for their cooperation and their collaboration and with boys. We don't teach that as much, right? And they actually come to see, like when we expect that from boys, it can start to seem emasculating. And, you know, so we, all the time we say, girls can be anything boys can be. Because like you were saying in the beginning, we value the masculine over the feminine, right? We value baseball over fashion. We value, you know, understanding finance over understanding intimacy, right? Right. And we talk to, and we talk, look, we use many more emotion-focused words with girls as infants than we do with boys. And with boys, we use more achievement-related language like proud, win, best. But of course, those are things, you know, being able to be, to own your sense of competitiveness and also being able to be emotional are important for everybody. So why are we doing this really binary thing? Because it's unconscious, because it's so much of what we learn, because we are magnifying these very small differences that we see in infants when they're born, right? But normally, but you know, research shows if you don't actually play into those differences, they disappear.
 
Dr. Cam (28:03)
How do we teach our girls to recognize these microaggressions against women? How do we teach them to recognize those and how to stand up for themselves in a way that, I mean, this isn't about being suddenly nasty or rude because that completely feeds into the stereotype too, right? Don't become a Karen. So how do we teach our girls to be assertive in situations where they feel like they're being mistreated.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (29:01)
In the book, I tell the story about how I first introduced sexism to my daughter, right? And in the book, I call it a sexism detector. We want it to be sort of like a smoke detector that it only goes off when it's actually needed. But because it can be hard, it can be really hard to tell if something's sexist, right? Because often it's so invisible or it's very subtle. In the past, it used to be much more, maybe it was more obvious. And it's more subtle today because we have movements like Me Too and because we have books like Sexism and Sensibility. So a lot of it is sort of going underground, but just because it's more subtle does not make it less damaging. So I was much more hesitant with my daughter to talk about sexism than with my son because I didn't want to make her feel inferior. I didn't want her to feel like a target, right? So basically what happened is we were watching MasterChef Jr. as a family and the first season she was like, the girl's gonna win. I think the girl's gonna win. I really want the girl to win. And you know, the girl didn't win. And then this went on for several seasons and like we were watching reruns so like we could sort of plow through it. And each season I could see like her hope diminish. And eventually I was like, what am I doing?
 
There's so many obvious signs of sexism, obvious to me, but not to little her. So I started to say, you know what? There's something going on here and the girl's not winning in part, I think, because all the judges are men. And they're probably not doing it on purpose, but they're identifying with the boys. And so I picked out things like, do you see how they say to the boy, my God, this is an amazing dish, I can't wait to visit your restaurant when you get older. And to the girls, they would say, wow, this is an amazing dish. Is this a fluke or could you do it again? Right. And then you wonder why every woman that walks in my office has imposter syndrome. So basically over time, we're teaching them, we're pointing out an everyday life because the world gives us endless teachable moments. Right.
We're saying, wow, did you notice that the waiter did not make eye contact with me until he realized that I was paying and going to be giving the test.
 
You're saying they often think that the man is gonna pay and so they're not nice to the woman or they're making these assumptions. And that's something that you're gonna experience in your life from time to time and I just want you to be aware of it. Right? And we can talk about it when it happens. Because if you bring it into the home and you say that you know that gender bias and sexism exists and it's not okay, but it's not about them, it's about the culture. here we are, we're trying to fix the culture and it is getting better over time. You always wanna balance the darkness with hope.
 
Dr. Cam (32:18)
Right. Here's the challenge though, too, that I see is when you are a girl or a woman and you point out things like that, that feel biased rather than people, men often, even women, self-correcting, they turn it around as you're being too sensitive or I've been left out of meetings because it's like, well, we can't be ourselves if there's a woman there, because now we can't be ourselves, which means what? Right? Now we have to be careful that we're not sexist. So that is a challenge too, because you might get left out of the circle or you might get kind of labeled if you make a big deal out of being treated unequally.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (32:51)
Part of it is every child is different and some kids are going to feel more comfortable standing up for themselves and some aren't. Right. So the big thing that I want to get across to all girls is it's not them. Right. They do not need fixing. The culture needs fixing. Right. But that they are. So we're trying to intervene before they really internalize all of this stuff. And that hopefully over time, as it becomes more acceptable in the culture, and it already is, they will feel comfortable standing up. And if they can, if they can be, if they can employ bystander intervention, which just means speaking up when it happens to somebody else, then when it happens to them, they are more likely not to think this was my fault. This was something I asked for. This was something I did wrong.
 
I shouldn't have said that to him. I shouldn't have looked at him like this. I shouldn't have gone home with him, right? So the more we can talk about it, the more they'll feel like they can stand up for it. But we also want them to, we wanna give them permission to walk away when they feel like they can't stand up for themselves, when they feel like it's dangerous.
 
Right? We just want them to know, like that's what I started to say before. If we bring it into the home, they'll even if they can't say anything there or they don't feel comfortable saying anything there, they can always come home and talk to us because we've already let them know. We know this exists. You did not ask for this. This is not your responsibility to fix, but I want to hear about it.
 
Dr. Cam (35:02)
It's basically protecting them from being gaslit. Right? Do you think that's part of it? And there I just giggled. It's part of, so it's protecting them from, and what you're saying is it's, so they're not internalizing it. They're not as impacted when people say something by taking it personally. They can separate and say, that person is having issues with me being a woman.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (35:07)
Essentially. Essentially.
 
Dr. Cam (35:32)
It has nothing to do with me being a woman. It has nothing to do with me personally.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (35:34)
Right, like in the book, right, and you're right, like a lot of, it happens so often that we really can't react to every little thing, right? So we're giving them the tools to just sort of swiftly decode what's happening in the moment. But you know, I interviewed a group of eighth graders for the book and they were like, it's fine. I mean, I don't like when he snaps my bra strap, but it's fine.
 
Dr. Cam (35:44)
No, it's too right. That's crazy.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (36:03)
And the thing is, what we're trying to have girls understand is like, yes, there are times you have to brush it off and I want you to know it's not fine because over time, research shows that this affects your self-esteem and your sense of potential. It places so much focus on your body that you can't focus on other things.
 
Dr. Cam (36:26)
Yeah, that's really important to keep that message going. I think too, and everything you've been saying, I haven't gotten the gist of that, but making sure this isn't about blame either. This isn't about men are bad, men are evil, men are, this is not about that at all. I think it's just pointing out that this is the way that we've all been raised to believe and that it's going to take time to change that belief that it's not the intent isn't sometimes it is, but the intent isn't to be sexist more than it is just completely unaware. Do you feel like that's fair to say?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (37:10)
You mean among boys and men? Yeah, I think right. I think actually this sort of patriarchal culture that our kids are growing up in, it hurts boys as much as it hurts girls. And what I've come to understand being in private practice for so long and talk and, know, I have many boys and men that are patients too, that we need to change the culture, not just because it will help our daughters. but because it will help our sons too, right? So what we're doing is we're cutting off half of their humanity, right? If you can't express your, if you're a woman or a girl, you know, an adolescent and you can't express your autonomy and your competitiveness and your authority, that's cutting off an important part of who you are.
 
And if you're a boy and you can't express your emotionality and your wish for connection and cooperation, that's cutting off half your humanity. And so I want this as much for boys as I do for girls.
 
Dr. Cam (38:19)
Let's go there real quick because I think we mentioned at the very beginning, there's, it's put on the women to make change, right? And we end up adapting ourselves to fit into a man's world. How do we raise sons that are less or aren't sexist?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (38:45)
That's a really good question and I do have a whole section in the book on that. You know, I think for one, especially when you're a teenage boy, girls have a lot of power over you. And so often the Me Too movement doesn't make sense to them. They feel like they're being blamed. And so the really important thing that we wanna do is explain sexism to them help them understand it as much as we're helping our girls understand it because they don't understand the history. They don't understand the focus on girls' appearance. They don't understand. They really don't get how vigilant a girl has to be every moment of her life out in the world. And I think the more they come to understand that, the more empathy they'll have for her and for girls in general. And another thing I would say is For their whole growing up experience, don't separate boys and girls. As much as possible, keep these cross-gender friendships going.
 
Dr. Cam (39:49)
Yeah, you're right. There's so much separation. And then we don't understand one another and we don't learn from one another. And it does create this very just polarizing women, men. And I've been seeing this too, is that the container of what it is to be a man and a woman, I feel are so restraining that no one actually fits into that container. which then creates a whole nother level of insecurity because I don't fit that perfect container that is completely unrealistic, which means where do I fit?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (40:23)
Yes. And the container for women is their bodies, right? Like their bodies have to be shrunk and fit this certain standard. And for boys, it's really their masculinity, right? There's this constant nagging feeling that they're not boy enough. Even the most boy boys feel that way. And it's really sad. And with my son, in terms of like your question of what do you do, I've taken the long view. Like he might not be able now to stand up to his friends and be like, that's so sexist, right? But if I'm pointing it out, if I overhear things that they're saying, I'm, you know, there's a story in the book, right? About a friend of mine who called me and she had overheard her friend, she had overheard her son who was a new freshmen, just making friends, had them over to the house and they were saying words like ho and thought, right? That whatever, that ho over there and she didn't say anything because she didn't want to be the one who sort of single-handedly shamed them and got in the way of him making friends. And so she called me and she was like, my God, what am I going to do? Like, I feel like I missed the moment. And I was like, you did not miss the moment at all. This is just perfect food for fodder. And so she went and she talked to him about what she had overheard and he was like, mom, it's just a joke. And you know, even the girls laugh at it.
 
And she was like, yeah, I'm sure they do because they've been conditioned to, but there's no reason that we should laugh at girls' sexuality and elevate boys' sexuality. And I was like, boom, right? And so that was just a lesson in passing. She didn't harp on it. It was just something she could say. And over time, hopefully this message sinks into that boy and he starts to be able to think that way as well.
 
Dr. Cam (42:08)
I love that. the takeaway I'm getting is it's really in modeling how we are as mothers and just showing our power, talking to our girls and boys equally and focusing on both sides of who they are. And I want to ask you, what is your big takeaway that you want parents to walk away with?
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (42:52)
that's a great question. I want parents to know that sexism and gender bias affect girls much more than you think. But if you understand how to approach it, you can reduce the negative effects of it.
 
Dr. Cam (43:16)
Great. That is wonderful. So Dr. Jo, tell us more about your book and how people can find you.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (43:23)
Yes, so the book is called Sexism and Sensibility, Raising Empowered Resilient Girls in the Modern World. You can find it wherever books are sold. It's also an audiobook that I narrate and it is you can find me at JoanneFengelstein.com or I have a newsletter that's JoanneFengelstein.substack.com called The Feminist Parent and I'm on Instagram at joannfingelstein.phd and on TikTok at the same handle.
 
Dr. Cam (44:00)
All of them. That's great. And I love that you played off of a Jane Austen book because Jane Austen writes some really powerful women. So that's a great play. Love it. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you.
 
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (44:08)
She sure does.Thank you, Dr. Cam, it's been fun.
 
ABOUT THE SHOW
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast delivers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help parents strengthen their relationship with their teens. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior, communication, or self-esteem issues, this podcast offers actionable solutions to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.
#empoweringgirls #genderbias #raisingstronggirls #parentingtips

Is My Teen a Monster? Understanding & De-Escalating Intense Emotions

Dr. Cam sits down with Leslie Cohen-Rubery, a clinical social worker, to tackle one of the toughest challenges parents face—handling teens with intense emotions. If you’ve ever felt like your child’s outbursts are out of control or completely illogical, this episode is for you. Leslie shares insights on emotional regulation, validation, and how to de-escalate heated moments. They also discuss why parents shouldn't try to "fix" their teen’s feelings and how reflection and repair after conflicts can strengthen your relationship.
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
Why your teen’s emotions aren’t as irrational as they seem
The biological and social factors behind emotional outbursts
How validation can calm a crisis and improve communication
The power of witnessing emotions without rushing to fix them
How to repair after a conflict and strengthen your connection
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Your child's intense emotions aren’t a reflection of your parenting. Feeling guilt or shame doesn’t help—understanding does.
Validation is a game-changer. Acknowledging your teen’s emotions without judgment helps them feel heard.
Your teen's brain is still developing. Their reactions may feel extreme, but there’s often a biological and social reason behind them.
Don’t rush to fix their emotions. Sometimes, just sitting with them in their discomfort is the best support.
Conflict can lead to growth. Post-conflict discussions should focus on solutions, not blame, to strengthen your relationship.
 
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EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Understanding the 'Monster' in Our Teens04:06 The Roots of Intense Emotions09:45 Navigating Emotional Turbulence14:00 Effective Strategies for De-escalation20:01 Post-Conflict Reflection and Repair30:09 Building a Strong Parent-Child Connection
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Leslie Cohen-Rubery
Facebook: @lesliecohenrubury
Instagram: @lesliecohenrubury
YouTube: @lesliecohenrubury
TikTok: @lesliecohenrubury
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
THE FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam (00:01.902)
Hey parents, if your teen is prone to outbursts or dramatic reactions, this episode is for you. Joining us today is the insightful Leslie Cohen-Ruberry, a licensed clinical social worker with 39 years of experience supporting families. Leslie is the creator of the podcast, Is My Child a Monster? Where she helps parents navigate the often rocky waters of parenting.
 
In this episode, Leslie is going to share some effective strategies for addressing our teens' monstrous emotions. Welcome, Leslie.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (00:35.759)
Well, hello, thank you Dr. Cam for having me today.
 
Dr. Cam (00:39.264)
Absolutely, let's start with, I always like to start with the backstory. How did you come up with the title and the idea of, is my child a monster?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (00:48.987)
Well, it's very real. And that's actually a piece of advice I might talk about later when we talk about how to be with our kids. It's about being real. So parents would come to me and in that very first session, they'd sit down and they'd say, is my child a monster? Like they really were upset and it upset them to ask that question. They felt guilty, they felt shame. Sometimes it was even more extreme. Is my child sociopathic? And I'm like, my heart broke. And I said, no.
 
And that is what I say every time I have not met a monster, every time a parent comes into me and says, is my child a monster? So it was very real. I heard it over and over again. And then when I thought about doing a podcast, said, I can't do anything but that title because you know, it's so powerful. And what it is, it's no, your child is not a monster, but they may be misunderstood. And that's the whole premise behind the podcast. That's where it came from.
 
And that's what therapy is about. some parents don't feel like their child's a monster, but many, many parents worry about their child and they don't understand their child. So it includes really all parents, not just the ones who think their child's a monster.
 
Dr. Cam (02:01.482)
I love that and I think that is this ongoing fear that parents have saying, my gosh, did I mess my kid up? Is there something wrong with my kid? Is this normal? What are some of the behaviors you see the parents group into the term monster?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (02:08.15)
Well, the biggest one is what you sort of announced in the introduction, which is these big, intense emotions. Like a child having, one of my episodes is where the child is having a meltdown because the parent threw away or lost their acorn. And so from a parent's mind is you've got to be kidding me. You're having a meltdown over an acorn where there's literally thousands outside, we can go get another. So parents would, it's that's very typical. So intense emotions, like you wanted to go see that movie, why can't, why are you having a meltdown before we go in? These are all examples from, you know, podcast is like, parents get confused over, it feels like illogical, intense reactions and intense behaviors. So throwing things.
 
You know, withdrawing, won't talk, won't, you know, anything like that. When we get to teenagers, the behaviors get a little more scary and so do the emotions. So we're talking about teens who may be self-harming, may be extreme in their language to the parent. These power struggles get very intense. So it's usually intense behaviors or intense emotion.
 
Dr. Cam (03:39.212)
First of all, parents, if your kids are acting this way and you have this fear, which I know a lot of you do, take a deep breath. We're going to talk about it and there is an explanation behind it. And when there's an explanation, there are solutions. So let's start first with some explanation. Where are these big overreactions over something seemingly ridiculously small? Where are they coming from?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (04:06.883)
Well, that's a long answer, but the short answer is your child is in emotion mind. And much of the skills that I'm going to talk about today come from dialectic behavior therapy. I am an intensively trained dialectic behavior therapist. and these skills are incredible for regulating emotions and disray and, also behavior. So dial the first thing is we want to recognize when our child is in emotion mind, because in that moment.
 
When the child is feeling that they are an emotion mind, which is an illogical, intense, often hot, heavy, you know, kind of experience. For the question that's a little bit larger context of where is this coming from, we have both a biological makeup and an environmental or social component, which is, you know, who your child is when they're born. And that part, we don't change. That part, we need to accept that this is who they are. We're not fixing their biological makeup. So some children are born highly, highly sensitive. They feel things intensely, whether they notice someone crying three blocks away or, you know, at the other end of the room or in the classroom or something like that. They take on, they feel other people's emotions. get, they may get overwhelmed by stimulation, by just being in a crowded place, why are they hesitating to go to a birthday party that they really wanna go to or go visit their friend. And so there's the biological piece that parents often wanna change, but we really need to remember acceptance is one of the more important strategies to actually teach and use. And then there's of course the social environment.
If your child, if you have one of these sensitive children and you're trying to get out of the house with your teenager and you're screaming at them, come on, I gave you 15 minutes, let's go, let's go. And you just like, there's nothing in your mind that says, why is this kid not getting out of the house? It's time to go to school. They're always late. When you get that kind of frustration and then you convey that because we're all human and it is frustrating. So when the parent is feeling that kind of frustration,
 
they may be conveying to the child unintentionally, you are bad, what is wrong with you? How come you can't do this? Or even if there's not that there may be a few siblings in the house and that child is the only one that's struggling. you know, everybody else is out the door catching the bus, whatever, they're there, they're doing it, they're struggling. And so they may think that they are a monster. They may think that they are bad. And that's the environment which is what does the fit look like between the environment and who this person is?
 
Dr. Cam (07:01.342)
And Leslie, I think it's really important to point out that when we start reacting to our kids this way and they start responding this way, we start actually defining who they are and how they see themselves. And so when we act like they're a monster, we start feeding into them becoming and believing they're a monster, which just makes it worse. So I, right. So I think.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (07:27.865)
And it's behaviorism. It's reinforcing exactly what they see.
 
Dr. Cam (07:31.028)
It is exactly what we're trying to stop. And I think a lot of parents do because they're trying to say, I'm pointing out what's wrong with you, so you'll fix it. And the problem is that's not how it works. Because if they could fix it, they would have.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (07:48.943)
Right? No one wants to be feeling this way. No one wants to show up like that. I mean, no, I was the one in my family having those tantrums. there's, you know, it's not you. And yeah, it's not like we wanted to be that way. And that's what parents forget that. They forget. Yeah. When I gave the title, didn't realize, I'm just, I'm healing those childhood wounds because I was that monster child, even though I didn't call myself a monster. I just said I was bad.
 
Dr. Cam (07:58.072)
Ditto.That was a pain in the butt. 
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (08:17.549)
And bad is a feeling of shame and shame is very, very toxic. It's very often. It is an unjustified feeling that I labeled myself because the world didn't get me. I had my learning disabilities. had these intense emotions. was highly intense behaviors and highly sensitive and you know, no fault, but nobody really got me. And that's what the podcast is about. And that's what we're doing here today is to help parents understand who your child is.
 
Dr. Cam (08:50.114)
Yeah. So the first step is realizing they're not doing this on purpose. They're not doing it to make your life miserable. And us getting upset does not hurry them. It slows them down more. So a lot of times we get this anxiety and we just get louder and more and more and we got to go, we got to go. And when we do this, we're actually slowing the process down. So
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (09:16.559)
Right. Well, I think there's a lot of pressure on parents and I write the pressure to not have this moment, to teach your child. Like if I don't do this now, what will my child be like? And a lot of our fear is driven by future oriented pressure. Like I have to teach my child. Well, I fire many parents from that job. I actually say, can I fire you because I have another job for you. And that other job is to see your child for who they are and give them that information. Well, I noticed getting out of the house is really hard for you. So it's observing and describing. Those are two mindfulness skills that we teach in DBT. Those observe and describe what you see. Give your child that information. That is the most important job as a parent is to give your child the information about who they are. and how they show up in the world. Wow, I noticed, yeah, go ahead.
 
Dr. Cam (10:17.312)
And, no, I just wanted to add to that. When you said that, there was no adjectives put into it or subjective thoughts to it. Like you're lazy and you're this or you're, it is just the facts of you are not getting out on time. No, nothing else.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (10:37.039)
Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm a very intense person myself. So when my child was having their big reactions or whatever, I needed to calm myself down because I was the one. So when we notice a name, I am now working very hard to actually stay in my wise mind so that I don't get absorbed into their wise mind, into their emotion mind at the moment. So when I say, well, I noticed you're having a big reaction.
 
I noticed that you're yelling at me. I noticed that you actually said you hate school. It's real, it's in the moment, and it often helps both the child and the parent sort of like wake up and say, yeah, that's what's happening right now. And then you can figure out what the next step is. So observing and describe is a very important skill to actually help us deal with those big emotions.
 
Dr. Cam (11:35.246)
I love that because it not only gives them the language, it also gives you the language and resets your expectation of what's going on and changes. Because when we have a story which we create about what's going on and we respond out of that story, which 9 times out of 10, probably 9.9 times out of 10 is wrong, we're responding in a very ineffective way.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (11:57.243)
And what you just said I want to reinforce, which is parent and children need to learn these skills, especially teens. And I, every year I run what's called a multifamily DBT group. And a multifamily group means you have a parent or two parents or caregivers and the team in the group. And most teens come and say, I don't want my parent in the group. I said, watch out, they're going to get more out of it than you are. And the parents who join the group actually get their eyes open up there, you know, and for the team, they're thrilled to see their parent learning something. They are actually and I know they're taking stuff away too. you know, everybody's taking these skills away when we're in the group together, but the teens love to see their parents learning it. So the idea that you are learning the same thing and the same language of these three states of mind, I'm in emotion mind, you're in emotion mind, I need to take a moment to get myself into wise mind. You know, that's the difference between emotions in the back of your brain and the prefrontal cortex where you can problem solve. You can't problem solve when you're in a state of emotion and that's a mistake parents often try to do is when their child is screaming, let's solve this problem. That is not the moment to solve, no.
 
Dr. Cam (13:14.168)
going to happen. Yeah, that's when we just take the phone out of anger and then it's not accomplishing or teaching or doing anything at that point. We're just making it mad. So I think let's let's talk. So now parents are probably on the edge of the seat going, OK, now tell us then what do we do if we can't yell and we've got to stay? We're going to try to stay calm. We need to know what to do. And I think it's a real challenge with teenagers because they are not open to our suggestions at this point. So please tell us, what do we do when we're in that moment and what are some things first and then what are some things we can do to prevent us from getting in that moment, which is way easier than trying to get out of the moment.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (14:00.796)
Absolutely. There is an ABC or an ARC kind of, we can do things beforehand, we can do things during, and we can do things after. in the moment, we'll go back later to what we can do beforehand, but in the moment, one of the most, you know, so we started off by saying, become aware that you or your child is in emotion mind. And then I sort of asked myself a question, whose problem is this?
 
If the child came to me upset, it's their problem. Why am I going to get in there and make it my problem? So I have a metaphor that's a little bit graphic. And if anyone is very queasy, please turn down your volume. But the idea that if your child was throwing up because they had a stomach bug, you would want to go and help them, but you would not say you can throw up on me.
 
That would be ridiculous because once they throw up on you, now you no longer can be help. You have to go shower yourself. You have to change your clothes. You got to clean up. It's like, and you're disgusted. So you're not helpful anymore. But if you hand them a bucket, you can, because you realize they're sick. I need to help them. But you keep yourself that one step removed and you hand them a bucket. Now you can be helpful. So the metaphor says, ask yourself, whose problem is this If it's their problem, I have to be able to witness, and this is the hard part, I have to be able to witness my child being uncomfortable. And parents, I see a lot of parents having difficulty with that. They are really, really uncomfortable. They don't want their child to be uncomfortable from a very young age. So they're trying to smooth the road. Well, when you get to a teenager and you can't smooth the road anymore, then you get it. you know, like hit it like a slap in the face. It's awful because you can't fix it in the moment. And they are going to be, you know, they're going to feel these intense emotions of feeling left out or not good enough with their peers or at home or whatever it is. And so parents have to witness the pain that their child is in. And so you need your own system of support and grounding yourself and just remembering that it is their problem.
 
And the way we fix it or the way we help them is to actually respect them to say they can handle their problem. Even if you think they can't, still say that to yourself. I have faith that my child can handle their problem. And I know everybody wants it in the immediate. Right now I want my child to handle their problem. I want it to go away, but… It's a much more open your hands and be willing to accept the discomfort of the moment that's gonna be there until it passes and it will pass.
 
Dr. Cam (16:55.374)
So what do we do in the meantime? Because doing nothing is probably the hardest thing for parents to do. We want to do, we want to fix. Do we just stand there and let them act out? What if they're acting out violently or yelling or what do we do?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (17:15.909)
So the one way to deescalate, one of the most effective ways to deescalate or to actually just with just a very effective skill is using validation. Validation acknowledges what is going on, what is happening, what your child is feeling, thinking, how their behavior, validation does not mean agreement.
 
So if I validate my child who is yelling at me, it doesn't mean I okay it. It doesn't mean I'm saying it's okay. I can validate you are so angry that you think the only thing you could do right now is to scream at me.
 
So when we validate what is going on for our child, it can begin to deescalate it because I'm not adding fuel to the fire. And validation is simply stating what you see, sort of a little bit of that observe and describe, but it's that what I said about being real. It's letting your child know. So some parents will say to a teenager, I see that you're, you know, see that you're really, it sounds like you're really angry.
 
Okay. And they get even angrier. Right. Sometimes it works and it brings them down goes, yes, I'm so angry. I, know, I'm really, really angry. And other times they just get angrier. So if validation works, it's going to deescalate the situation. If validation doesn't work, because by the way, validation is in the eye of the beholder. So the person who's receiving it. Yeah. The person receiving the validation has to feel is validating.
 
Dr. Cam (18:50.381)
That's a good point.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (18:56.613)
So if they get louder and they get more upset, I would say very quickly, wow, what I just said felt more invalidating, even if I'm trying to validate you. So then I would, then that's when I go, they just want, know, hey, this situation sucks. This situation is really miserable. They don't want me to tell them how they're feeling. They want me to be on their side and just say, and I don't have, again, I don't have to agree with them. This really stinks.
 
We are so quick to try to fix everything. Slow down and just see where your child is. Just slow down and be in the pain with them. And we don't wanna do that because we think we're gonna make it worse. I think I use a clip for, didn't even see the movie, but I use a clip from Inside Out one, part one, where, or the first one, where there's a very good example of actually being there and naming the sadness or naming the pain or naming the anger actually reduces it, it doesn't increase it.
 
Dr. Cam (20:01.41)
Yeah, I think what's hard is when we see kids especially swearing at us and saying things like that. think it triggers us to say, a second, I as a parent should not be talked to this way. This is not okay. I think we're not saying that that is okay. We're saying that's not the moment that you're going to make any change. If you try to teach and correct and fix that language and say that's not okay and get upset with how they're exhibiting their anger in that moment, you're just gonna get more of it. So this is something we're in the moment. We're not going to teach, we're not going to folks fix, we're going to validate and we're gonna deescalate. That is our only job, right?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (20:49.893)
Right. Right. And that is a a winning plan. That is parents think I'm not letting them get the best of me. I'm not going to let them do that. Well, then you actually enter the power struggle. They baited you and you got baited. And so I say to parents, kids are really good at baiting us. They know how to supposedly push our buttons by the way we don't have buttons, but kids know what to say.
 
Not because the manipulative, by the way, I do not look at teenagers and manipulative. I look at kids as doing the best they can with the skills they have. And in that moment, they need you to understand that. And if they're upset and then they get you upset, well, they got you to understand they're upset. So can you do that by again, stepping away and giving them a little space because giving them a little space and saying, I'm here.
 
I see that you are in emotion mind. see that you're yelling at me and you're trying to communicate to me, you know, go below the surface. When they're yelling at you, don't stay up on the surface and get caught in the, that's where you get baited. Go below the surface and say, wow, if you're yelling at me this way, you must be in a lot of pain. You must be feeling so horrible that you can yell at me or you want me to know something. Hey, can you take a breath and let me know what you're trying to tell me?
 
I, another thing that I say, I bait them. I really want to hear what you have to say. What you're doing right now doesn't work for me. I don't speak yelling language. I don't, I can't understand this. So I'm here. I want to hear what you have to say. It's very important. Can you find a different way to say it? I'll give you space. I'll give you time.
 
Dr. Cam (22:37.922)
Yeah. I think what's important, Leslie, is if we go and try this today and you've been in a mask and your go-to has been yelling and getting caught up into it, it's not gonna work beautifully for the first, second, third time because your kids are still expecting you to get upset. This is something that you have to do over time. So a lot of parents will go, well, I tried that once. It didn't work. I'm gonna go back to the yelling which has not worked hundreds of times. So I really want to encourage parents when you hear skills like this, they're not something that magically changes. It's something you have to be consistent at and you have to adapt and learn. But when we're always yelling and showing our kids we can't regulate our emotions, we're not going to be able to teach them to regulate theirs.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (23:32.591)
Right, right. And one day your child's gonna turn to you if you use the language of emotion mind and don't overuse it, they will not like that. But when you use it, they will turn one day to you and say, mom, you're in emotion mind. And you will not like hearing that, but they're right. Right, they know it.
 
Dr. Cam (23:51.938)
Yeah. yeah, my teen has told me, we don't use emotion mind, but my teen has definitely pointed that out too. And it's important because we both need, when you get in that emotional state, you kind of lose your smart mind, right? A little bit. So it's good to kind of have that touchstone. Okay. So we're calming and we're deescalating by really not adding is what our goal is.
 
What do we do afterwards when our kids have been completely rude and nasty and said stuff that we are not okay with? How do we address that now without starting it up again?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (24:32.471)
Okay, so at that point afterwards, sometimes, you know, there's three approaches, you let it go. There are some families where they have to process everything, you know, and it's and the children are exhausted because and that's why they don't want to talk to you because everything needs to be processed. So a small percentage of it is let it go. It's over. Okay. Well, I'm not gonna let my child get away with it. You think they let you know my child who was had such difficulty and had big emotions, she still feels shame at 34 years old for the way she treated her family, you know, and been apologizing to that. And they don't forget. So if you let it go, it's only because every once in a while it's okay to let some things go. On the other hand, there is a good amount of time where I want to sit down and say, hey, can we look at what happened? Now, most of the time, when people wanna look at what happens, it's like for further punishment, as opposed to, or blame. You said this and I, know, and so instead if we adopt a perspective, and this is what we do in DBT again, is we say, hey, let's look what happened so we can figure out what we can do different next time. And it's called looking for synthesis and solutions for changing behavior.
 
So I would, and this is what I would do way in advance is, hey, I'm gonna do something new. Instead of when things don't feel good or you behave in a way or I behave in a way that we're not happy with, I would like to come back, take a short little five minute, that time makes them feel like you're not gonna lecture them for two hours. I'd like to go over for five minutes just what happened, what can we do different? Not what happened so we can blame not what what happened so we can judge but what what happened so we can look at doing something different. Okay.
 
Dr. Cam (26:36.302)
Yeah, that's so important because I think often we approach it as what can you do differently next time? What should you do differently next time when the dynamic required both of us?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (26:50.745)
Right. So you might now I've started with my started young with my grandchildren. I did with my kids, but I didn't know all this as much with my kids who are 37, 34, 34. So I'm doing it with my grandchildren where, you know, big, intense emotions, highly sensitive kids, and they're listening. But if you already have a team who you haven't had the opportunity to do some of this with, It's probably best to start with yourself. So if you sit down and say, I'd like to go over what I could do different, that did not feel good to me. Even if your child was the one with big emotions, they feel safer coming to you and listening, hey, I just want to share with you what I'd like to do different. You might have a suggestion for me. I might have a suggestion and let you know what I'm going to try different. Next time that happens, I'm going to say, I'm getting an emotion mind, I'll be back. I'm gonna go calm myself down and I'll be back and I'm gonna come back to deal with you. Then they learn that you're dealing with your emotion, which is setting a fantastic example for them. So that would be something you could do initially is to share what you would do different. And absolutely, if they're open to it, I would say, do you wanna go over anything that you might do different?
 
And then finally is sometimes we need our children or ourselves to make a repair because damage was done. You said hurtful things. I said hurtful things and there are consequences. We're not ignoring those consequences. You have to, you know, I can understand why you might have said hurtful things. You were really in pain and now there are consequences. We still need a repair. So what does that repair look like? And I talked to my child with respect about hey, how do you want to how do you want to do a repair? We can sit here and do a little work about what we'd want to do next time. That's a repair. We could say that you want to take on one of my chores. I water my plants every Saturday morning. Maybe you want to take on one of my chores and water my plants for me. That's a repair. So we can we can offer something. And I think when we come generously to our children and invite them into the conversation and treat them with respect, then we more likely will get cooperation. I know not all kids will give that cooperation because they're angry and they're very hurt and they're very angry and they've got that wallet. They don't feel like they can willingly participate. And sometimes with those kids, it does take time. You need to create a connection so that they will feel like they're more willing to do something. We have to turn from conflict to collaboration. And so sometimes this goes into the before. Sometimes we need to do things when things are fine and work on building the sense of collaboration, building a sense of connection, because then the repair can go so much smoother. And if you have such trouble with the during and after, then it may be that you need to look at before I'm disconnected from my child.
 
And that's what most of these ruptures are about. They're like letting you know that there's no connection. So a lot of it is about prevention, is setting it up. So we reduce the number of, the amount of conflict.
 
Dr. Cam (30:25.068)
I think that's the most important piece that if you're constantly in conflict with your teen, it is not an issue with your teen. It is an issue with your relationship with your teen. So when we get upset and punish our teen for their part of a broken relationship, what is that telling them to? And we're not taking ownership or accountability for our part of it. And I see this a lot in my practice and teens are like, if my parents can't do anything or change anything and they want me to do all the change. No way. I'm not going to do that. That's crazy. Like they're the ones that need to change because they're mean to me and they say nasty things to me and they don't get me and they don't listen to me and I just have to fight for everything. And they're like, they're, they don't feel heard. And so when we take the time and I think the hardest is when our kids are being ugly to us, this makes it even harder for us to take a step back and try to connect with them because we are so resentful and angry at them.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (31:34.96)
It's, know, again, I really want to say to parents as you hear this, we're not blaming you because I look, look at, you know, being a parent is extremely challenging. It is going to bring up our own areas that of wounds and weaknesses that we need to work on. Just a very simple example is one of my daughters was extremely literal. Well, my brain doesn't work that way. When I say I'll be home in five minutes, you better give me plus or minus 10 minutes. But she said, you know, if I came home at six minutes, she said, mom, you said you were going to be home in five minutes ago, you know, in five minutes. And so I'm like, that would drive me nuts. And I'm like, okay, that's about the fit. So we do want to remember that there's no judgment. I'm not right. And she's wrong or she's not wrong. And I'm right. You know, it's, it's not about right and wrong. It's about the fit and you know, my older son, I was a go, go, go. I love being out. I love being on the go. I love doing things. He was a homebody. He didn't want to go all the time. I missed that. did, you know, in truth, the child that's intense and letting you know that they're upset, that's the one that's going to be okay. They know how to express themselves. It's the quiet one that he went along and he was a people pleaser. He took care of me by saying, I'll go, I'll go.
 
But I missed the fit and I missed the fact that he wasn't, he was a teenager who I was pushing and he was an easy going kid and, but, and he was a people pleaser. So he didn't give me a hard time, but my heart breaks because I miss understanding that piece of him. you said children need to be heard and understood. That's the point of my podcast. We need to hear and understand them. And all the examples that I give in the podcast are all about that. That's what we're working on with children. We're working on the fit. And the other thing, when it's up to us to start changing, it was so hard for me to bite my tongue and not say what I wanted to say. So parents, I'm with you. I know how satisfying it is. I love intense emotions. I love yelling. I came from a family where yelling was okay. You know, it was all fun. I married someone who does not, there was no yelling in his family right, from his background and upbringing, there was no yelling. So we had to get used to that, that I had to bite my tongue. I had to hold the horses back and I had to really resist what my urges, my urges were like, I wanna yell at her. And I did a skill in DBT called opposite action. She doesn't deserve to be shamed and you should be better, you should do this.
 
She was highly sensitive and so I worked very, very hard letting her have her moment thinking she's right. I did. I let her think she was right a lot of the time growing up because I knew my truth. It wasn't a power struggle for me to believe myself. It's just I wanted to correct her. And that's where I would get in trouble. And that's where parents are getting in trouble. We think we have to fix our children now. Remember they have a lifetime for figuring out that they're not always right.
 
Dr. Cam (34:57.258)
No, and I think the more important thing at this point is not fixing them and making them perfect, which they will never be. It is fixing our relationship with them so that we have, so they have that foundation of trust and respect and safety with us. Even when they go off into the real world, they're still coming home and they still want to be around us. I think that is the most important and we are sacrificing that very important piece that we need to help them thrive by trying to fix them and argue with them and yelling at them and doing things that actually undermine everything that we need to be doing as a parent. And I want to go to when you were saying this is not about blame. I think it's not about blame. think what was important for us as parents to realize is that parenting is a very crucial skill set that has to be learned and it has to be practiced. It's not our fault that no one teaches us this, but if we know that that's out there, it is up to us to go learn how to do it and be the best parent, because we don't want to wing it and just leave our kids while being up to chance. That's scary to me.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (36:09.403)
Right, right, exactly, exactly. And you were just talking about something I wanted to go back to. What was that? When our child is, if we don't get them, and it's very hard for a parent who is struggling because their child is not making the changes they want them to make, I often say connect to your child in another way, like,
 
I, there was a period of time when my daughter was pretty depressed and wouldn't listen to the skills, by the way, growing up, whenever I gave her a skill, she would often respond to me that stupid, that doesn't work. Okay. Right. What I, and parents keep, they nag and they keep saying, you have to use the skill, you have to use the skill. What I recommend is imagine that you're planting a seed because seeds take time to germinate.
 
Dr. Cam (36:50.668)
Yes, that happens all the time with teenagers.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (37:06.267)
And it may take 10 years before you actually see that seed germinate and come up. But I promise you parents, and my daughter called me up at 22 years old from Thailand where she was working at the time and said, mom, you have to tell the parents and the kids those skills really work. So she was the one who was telling me that it was stupid, it was stupid, it was stupid. And I didn't really know it was gonna work because this is the first time I was a parent, right? And I would say the skill and leave it.
 
Your children hear everything you say. So don't keep going. Believe that what you say is getting in there and that it's short and sweet and you have more chances of being successful at that point. And as I said, connect to your child in other ways. So if you can't help them regulate their emotions, connect to them in whatever way you can at the moment. If it's that they like to be wrapped up in a blanket and sit in their room all day. Talk about the blanket. Is this your favorite? What's your favorite blanket? know, like don't and actually be real and share with them real life things. Like, you know, one, you can actually get kids to deescalate not, you know, because you and someone else in the family may be talking about something really important or something really interesting and they stop having, you know, they deescalate in order to hear what you're talking about. So be real and show them that there's life outside of this big emotion. And that not everything has to be focused on their emotions and their behavior, like broaden their perspective and see them in a greater context, because there's a lot happening. Right? They may get really angry because there's injustice in the world. Great. Talk about that. And let them teach you maybe you don't know about what you know. So. Your kids have these, have these sparks and it's our job also to see that because sometimes all we see is what they're not doing and all of that. But if you go back and you remember your three year old who used to take apart all their toys or take apart the vacuum or take apart the, you know, whatever, go back to that. Think about some of the skills and things that you saw when they were little and try to connect to those parts.
 
Dr. Cam (39:29.782)
Yeah, love that. So Leslie, what is one big action item you want parents to be able to walk away with from this episode?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (39:42.731)
I was going to say planting the seeds, but I already said that. so the idea that you offer your child a skill, an idea, a teachable moment, but then you let it go. So offer it, whatever you have to offer your child, put it out as if it's a buffet and let them choose and let them pick it up and decide when it's right for them to learn that skill, to use that skill, and then try teaching that skill to yourself and modeling it.
 
Dr. Cam (40:18.254)
I was gonna say it's even more impactful if they see you doing it rather than telling them to do it and then you don't do it yourself.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (40:23.789)
Absolutely. There is so much work that even with my adult children now, they are comfortable enough giving me feedback. And the reason why they're comfortable enough for it, because I had to learn not to be defensive. And parents who get feedback from their kids is, mom, you always tell everybody whatever I tell you. You know, you, I try to tell you something and then you go blab it to your sisters or you go tell everybody else. To hear that is painful. but to be able to say, what's the message, not how are they delivering it. They may not be skillful in delivering it. So my one takeaway is take the feedback and actually allow yourself to be open and willing because then through the rest of their life, they will continue to come and talk to you. And my kids continue to give me feedback. I welcome it. It still has that little sting to it, but it allows us to be so connected.
 
And I think that's what parents want. They want that relationship as their children grow. Remember, teenage years are gonna pass. So what's gonna continue is your relationship with them. so, yeah, try to do that. Try to be open and willing to hear the feedback so that you can model the changes.
 
Dr. Cam (41:45.078)
I think the number one thing kids tell me why they get angry at their parents is because their parents don't listen. So that's a, and that's the number one reason parents get mad at their teens, because they're not listening. No one's listening. Yeah, so we got to start. We got to start the action. So Leslie.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (41:57.141)
Exactly. Is that no one's listening. Exactly. And validation is the key to listening. It proves that you're listening. So that just takes us back to the beginning where we said validation is so important.
 
Dr. Cam (42:11.618)
That's exactly right. It always comes back to that. Always comes back to that. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us. How do people find you?
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (42:20.431)
So my name is Leslie Cohen-Rubery, R-U-B-U-R-Y, and that's my website that has lots of resources. You can find my socials through my name, Leslie Cohen-Ruberry. And then Is My Child a Monster is either on my website or anywhere where you find podcasts. by all means, I encourage people to listen to get many, many more skills in how to help you understand your child. Bye.
 
Dr. Cam (42:47.95)
I will put all the links in the show notes so you guys can find that. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate your insight.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (42:50.351)
Beautiful.
 
Leslie Cohen-Rubury (42:55.727)
Thank you and thanks for what you're doing where these resources are wonderful for parents.
 
ABOUT THE SHOW
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast delivers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help parents strengthen their relationship with their teens. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior, communication, or emotional regulation, this podcast offers actionable solutions to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.
#parentingteens #emotionalintelligence #teenmentalhealth #parentingtips

How to Diffuse Conflict with Combative Teens: The Secret to Resolving Tension

Tired of constant arguments with your teen? You’re not alone! In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with conflict resolution expert Hesha Abrams to reveal practical techniques for defusing conflict and improving communication with combative teens. Learn how power struggles fuel arguments, why emotional regulation is key, and how a simple “do-over” can repair relationships. If you’re ready to stop the battles and start connecting, this episode is for you!
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
The surprising role power dynamics play in teen conflicts
Techniques to calm heated situations before they escalate
Why validation is a game-changer in communication
How to redirect destructive behavior before it spirals
The power of modeling emotional regulation for your teen
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Parenting is tough—grace and patience go a long way.
Conflict is often about power struggles—understanding this can help.
Teaching teens to manage big emotions is essential.
Modeling good behavior is more powerful than lecturing.
Perfection isn’t the goal—building a strong connection is.
 
🎧 ENJOYING THE SHOW?
Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating & review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes packed with practical tips for your family!🔔 Hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode!
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Book: Holding the Calm: The Secret to Resolving Conflict and Defusing Tension by Hesha Abrams
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Conflict Resolution with Teens
03:35 Understanding Power Dynamics in Conflict
10:13 Navigating Teen Conflicts
20:54 The Importance of Modeling Behavior
32:52 Redirecting Destructive Behavior
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Hesha Abrams
Website: www.holdingthecalm.com
Facebook: @HeshaAbramsHoldingTheCalm
Instagram: @holdingthecalmbook
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
THE FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Welcome back parents, Dr. Cam here. And in today's episode, we are diving into the secret to defusing conflict with combative teens with a renowned conflict resolution expert, Haysha Abrams. Haysha is an international acclaimed attorney and mediator known for her success in resolving high profile cases with some of the world's biggest companies, including Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Pepsi. I've heard of a few of those. 
 
She's also the author of the popular new book, Holding the Calm, the Secret to Resolving Conflict and Diffusing Tension. Today, Hayshia is going to share some practical, easy -to -use techniques to diffuse tension and resolve conflict, not just for our teens, but with anyone. Welcome, Hayshia. Thank you so much for joining us. Can you just start with your backstory? How did you get start in conflict resolution?
 
Hesha Abrams (00:48)
My pleasure. Well, what I want to start with, especially for a podcast like yours, because I do business podcasts all the time. But what I tell people is I'm a lawyer, I'm a mediator. I've done multi -billion dollar disputes at the highest levels of industry. And the hardest job I've ever had, being a parent.
 
Dr. Cam (01:03)
Yeah, that is so good to hear. Yes, good to hear. Good and not good. What did we get ourselves into?
 
Hesha Abrams (01:19)
It is so, well, you live with a tyrannical roommate who doesn't pay rent, right? So, and part of the problem is we want them to like us. And that is really a very dangerous, dangerous thing. So it becomes a really hard needle to thread. And that's what I want to talk about because I've learned techniques. have, first of all, I have great relationships with all my kids and my in -law kids. So I think that gives me some kudos right there. The techniques I'm going to teach, I use on them. And I have nine grandchildren and I use these on them earlier. I'm smarter now than I was when I was young, because I didn't have a me putting out a book like Holding the Calm. I had a lot of the touchy feely books in my day that don't work. They talk about all this good stuff that should happen and they don't work. So, you know, I'm a lawyer. I do big, hard, difficult cases. What's the difference between somebody saying, I want a hundred million dollars and somebody saying, here's 10 ,000, go drop dead. Right? How do you get that settled versus a teenager going, I hate you. You don't give me anything I want. My friends do this. You make me study. You don't understand me. Or whatever other nonsense happens. It's all the same.
 
Dr. Cam (02:29)
It's all emotion, right? It's that big fight or flight emotion place. So, and I have a lot of clients and I talk to people that do because we're teenagers are so emotional and they push our buttons and we get emotional and then we just got this huge blow up and we get stuck in this loop of just really negative interactions and kids can get nasty, they can get mean, they can even get physically violent. And I have parents that are scared of their kids. They don't want to make the problem worse. So they're kind of walking on eggshells around them, not wanting to get them upset, but it keeps getting worse. So we would love to hear from you on how do we start approaching, if we're there. A lot of what I do is preventing us from getting there, but if we're there. And we're in that moment where we're just butting heads and it's starting to get ugly and we don't know what to do. Hey, what do we do?
 
Hesha Abrams (03:35)
Yeah, so let's talk about that. because I want everything I do is very practical. I'm not a kumbaya kind of gal. I'm not interested in what should work or is a cool idea or rise above it or all that kind of junk. What actually works when this thing's happened? And I'm sure on your show, you've already talked about amygdala, fight or flight response. So I don't need to go into that again. Okay. So everybody knows that. So I have a theory. I think that all conflict and tension of any kind with anybody at any age or any time has to do with power. Either you're taking it, you're giving it, you're trying to hold onto it, you're trying to take it from somebody else. When power happens, the amygdala gets triggered and that is just a very dangerous thing. But the easy magic bean answer is you give power, but you give it in small little unimportant things because that's what calms the amygdala down. So let's say, and what I want to do is divide up our conversation into dealing with younger children, dealing with teenagers, and dealing with adults. Because techniques work with all of them, but you have to feed it slightly differently on how you do it. Okay? So let's start with the young ones and then we'll work our way up. So with the young ones, you have more power. Up until they're about what? 10 or 11? You know, you can actually physically restrain them if you need to.
 
You have all kinds of privileges you can restrict. You have a lot more power up to about 10 or 11. Part of the problem is parents don't use that power. So if you don't use it when they're young, you have a hard time using it when they're older. It's much harder to break an old dog than to start with a new dog. So there's that old saying that if you don't make them cry when they're young, they'll make you cry when they're older is an absolute, absolute truism. So let's start with the young ones first.
 
You want to teach kids how to handle big feelings. They big feelings. They have big feelings. We're all hungry, tired, cranky, don't get our own way, didn't get enough sleep. Every one of us has that. So one of the parenting life skills you as a parent need to teach your children is how to handle that. Now, part of the problem is we as adults, I wasn't taught that by my parents. Okay, I had to learn this through lots of therapy and lots of work and doing this.
 
Dr. Cam (05:37)
Or we're taught, just stop it. Don't do it, not how to work through it. So I think a lot of parents are uncomfortable with that. So I love this. Let's go into how, when we don't know how to do it, how do we help our kids do it?
 
Hesha Abrams (06:04)
Exactly. So that's the first thing I do is first thing I say to all parents when I'm talking to them is grace. For God's sakes, this is the hardest job in the world to raise another human being. It is a thankless job. Give yourself grace. Okay. So the issue is not, not making mistakes. The issue is correcting mistakes. You are going to make a million mistakes. How do you correct it? So this is what I have found.
 
Dr. Cam (06:35)
Absolutely.
 
Hesha Abrams (06:39)
acknowledging your, what a lot of people think is as a parent, I have to be tough and strong and always write, no, that's a completely wrong approach because you're not teaching the kids how to be able to do that. So what you do is you do whatever it is you're going to do. And let's say it's going badly. Something's, you can tell something's going badly. Try it. Part of the thing about holding the calm is why I wrote this book is I've got simple little techniques to catch it earlier. The longer you let it go, It's like spaghetti sauce on the counter. It's wet, you wipe it up with a sponge. Overnight, you're scraping it off with a knife, right? So the earlier you catch stuff, the better it is. So if you can catch stuff early, you, who has the power in that interaction? You do. So stop. You're the older, you're the adult. Stop and say, I'm getting angry. I'm losing control.
 
We're going to take a moment. And that's why I call the book, Holding the Calm. You can say, take a deep breath. You could say, think of grandma. I you can do whatever you want. I find Holding the Calm works because it's such an interesting thing to say to your amygdala. It says to your amygdala, you got some power here. Use it. So you seem to be very upset. I named the emotion. Clearly I don't understand. And I would like to understand. Now notice what just happened in that interaction. I gave them power, but I gave myself more power. Isn't that amazing? Everyone can do this in every single situation. Now what happens with the person on the other end? Their amygdala is going and they can't stop it. They have to go, what just happened? What? What? And now, rather than screaming, yelling, throwing a tantrum, I have to articulate what I'm feeling 80 % of the time they can't do it. But you didn't say you can't do it. They figured it out themselves and then go, and in the end it'll come out with, I'm just mad. I get that. I get that. Help me understand why. Now that's technique one. Technique number two is you say, can we have a do -over? A do -over is the greatest technique in the world with kids because it gives them permission to screw up, lose their temper and apologize and ask for a do -over. The problem is we go, say sorry to your brother or, I'm sorry. Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. it's obnoxious. Who wants that? It's awful. It's nothing. It's so much better to say, that didn't come out the way I wanted it to. Can I have a do -over? Now notice I never said the words I apologize. Never. But that's the effect. Can I do it better now? Now I'm calmer. I've held the calm.
 
Dr. Cam (09:09)
Yeah, it means nothing.
 
Hesha Abrams (09:29)
You have your own techniques. I've got, the book is written about 20 techniques, easy, simple things to use right now. You can pick any of them. It depends on the situation. And I explain all that. That's why I the book a super easy, inexpensive, no paperback.
 
Dr. Cam (09:42)
Can you give us like two of your favorite?
 
Hesha Abrams (09:45)
sure. Well, let's let me, if you don't mind, let me take you through the trajectory of little kid, older teenager and adult. And then the techniques will weave their way through that. So the one I just gave you, that's the most basic and you people can listen and go, big deal. I know that. Okay. How often do you use it? Right. So this is how you can use it. So you start with that. Okay. Now the other question is you can give power.
 
Dr. Cam (09:51)
Perfect. Let's do it.
 
Hesha Abrams (10:13)
So I want to switch to, let's say it's a boss or a colleague or a neighbor or your spouse or a more, an older kid, an older teen. You can give power in the easiest ways. What would you like for lunch? What music would you like to listen to? Is the temperature okay? Should I put the air conditioning on a little bit more? What else, you know, where would you like to sit? See how all of those things are just dumb, unimportant little things.
 
They are critical because you're giving away power. So the other person's amygdala can go, okay, maybe I'm not at risk here. Maybe friend or foe, I thought it was foe, maybe it's friend. Now things can start calming down a little bit because you are holding the calm, right? So it's like giving away a power. So now technique number four, how do you do that?
 
Validation is the WD -40 of the universe. Okay? It's unbelievable. But you don't validate, you know, you can be a good validator or a shallow one. Hey, I really like your shirt. Okay. mean, all right. That was all right. That's like a C. I'd rather get an A minus or an A, you know? So how about something where you catch them doing it right? This works any age. You know, you handle that really well.
 
I'm proud of you. Wow, that was a really difficult decision, but you made it anyway. You know, you chose to do the right thing, not the easy thing, but for you. See how subtle all that is? So, and I want to make it even easier for parents. And I've got all of these set in stems in the book. And what people tell me is they memorize them or put them on your phone. Cause I've set in stems. You just can use them. But let's say you don't have any of that and you just need something super easy. I call it the verbs.
 
Dr. Cam (12:00)
Nice.
 
Hesha Abrams (12:09)
Verbs are great, right? You handled that well. You saw what was wrong. You kept yourself calm. You were looking for solutions. You know, I appreciate you. I admire you. I respect you. Forget the love and like. We all know that stuff. But if someone's really angry at you and you go, I love you, it's almost irritating, right?
 
Dr. Cam (12:37)
It is. Yeah. It gets them, it gets them more angry because they're like, if you loved me, then why are you saying this to me?
 
Hesha Abrams (12:44)
Correct. And it may have to be, you there are times with my kids that I had to say, look, I want to be your friend, but I'm your parent. That's more important. I'm your mom. That's a more important job. And sometimes it means you're not going to like me, but I love you enough to have you mad at me to help you do the right thing. Now they're still going to be mad at you, but I have kids now that are in their forties that remember me saying that and telling me, mom, I didn't get it, but I so get it now. And that's why I respect you and they're not doing it to their kids. it's building that respect is so critical.
 
Dr. Cam (13:20)
And Hesha, I just want to point out too, because I think like when you first started talking, I was like, boy, where's this going? And then it went exactly where I agree with. Like I was hoping it would go, but I think the key thing is when you're saying they might not like you, they might not like you, but nothing that you're saying is about you getting more power or you exerting your anger or you lashing out at them. It is about you staying calm and not buying into it and giving them the space to be angry and figuring it out. So it's not about saying they get to walk all over you. You're still saying stuff, but it's not doing it in a mean, angry, forceful way. Okay. Okay.
 
Hesha Abrams (14:04)
Yeah, beautifully said, beautifully said. And the thing I want to remind everybody, there's times as a parent you can't keep calm. You've been fired, you had a fight with your spouse, you got in a car accident, you're cranky, you have your period. mean, whatever it is, you give yourself grace. So that's why I always tell people you're gonna screw up. What do do when the light bulb goes off and you go.
 
I didn't handle that well. This is how you handle it. This is what you do. These four steps that I just gave, now I have got more advanced ones in the books about, let's say it's a real problem, like a big issue. Well, I have a four step thing called Vox and a system that you work through to actually figure out answers. But what it does is it's very empowering to somebody else. And when you have a teenager, I did little kids already, when you have a teenager, they think they're an adult, but they're
 
The human brain doesn't really develop in women until like 21 or 22 and men 25 or 28, right? So you can't tell them that. What good does that do? So let me tell you a little trick that I use even now and it works so great. They're adamant. I don't care if you've got an eight -year -old or a 28 -year -old and they're adamant about what they want or how they have to do it. And you just know it's wrong, right? So you can listen. So you listen. And then you validate how they're thinking about it and they're trying to think through all the things. And then I say, I have a question for you. May I ask you who says no to that? Now they say, yes, their ears open. If you want someone to hear something, ask them. If you may say it to them, 95 % of the time, they're going to say, yes, now you've opened their ears. If you just say it, just watch this right over them. Now I'm listening and I'll say, you know, you're 28.
 
Do you think you're smarter than you were when you were 18? Yeah. Do think you might be smarter at 35? Huh. That's it. I have an eight year old. Are you smarter than when you were six? Huh. Do think you might be smarter at nine or 10? Huh. Now, if they have a sibling, that's even a better way to do it because if they're nine and the sibling's six,
 
Dr. Cam (16:12)
I like it.
 
Hesha Abrams (16:27)
Well, of course I'm smarter than a six -year -old, right? That's so easy to do. It's a better, rather than saying you're young, you haven't learned everything, you need to know, who listens to that garbage? But you do it yourself on their own. Go to learn here. Maybe my mother or father isn't as stupid as I thought they were, you know. There's a funny line from Mark Twain that he says he thought when he was a teenager he thought his father was an idiot and by the time he was an adult he was amazed how much his father had grown.
 
Dr. Cam (17:00)
Yeah, exactly. How much you learned in that amount of time. And I think the point is we might have to wait that long for them to really get it, but I think trying to convince them doesn't work.
 
Hesha Abrams (17:15)
They don't really honestly, honestly get it until they start having kids of their own, but they get it in their own way. And then when they start having kids of their own, that's when they come back and go, my God, but I'll tell you a little secret everybody, it doesn't matter. Because by that point you've let go, you've forgiven, you've moved on. So by the time they get it, you're like, yeah, okay, welcome to the club. It doesn't matter. It's about surviving in the moment and having an intact, healthy, respectful relationship with your children. And it's having a boundary, having a decent boundary. so actually, can I give another example? It just happened this weekend that a friend told me.
 
Dr. Cam (18:02)
You can, and then I have a few questions of certain situations I'd love to run by you. No, I want to hear your story.
 
Hesha Abrams (18:05)
Well, you go first then, you go first. Okay, so I was at a wedding this weekend and a girlfriend of mine is the stepmother and she was out with the mother of the bride and the sister of the bride and her and they were all getting their nails done. And so they were commenting about I had flown up to support her and how wonderful that her friends had done that. And the 29 year old spoke up and said, well, mom, that wouldn't work for you. You don't have any friends excuse me? Excuse me? That's because that was a mother who wanted to be liked. So she wanted to be friends with her daughter. Well, that's what she got. She got that kind of, you're okay with that. Okay. I'm not okay with that. I would never be treated that way. My kids would be scared to say something like that to me, but that's how I, that's what I want it. Now, if you want to be friends with your kids, you're going to get friend behavior as opposed to respect and parent behavior. Now that doesn't mean you have to be an autocrat, obnoxious, not friendly with them. Of course not. Why is it either end? You should be able to do both, right? But that's, it just came up this weekend and I went, you know, and the problem is, can she correct it now? Yes. It'll be a harder spaghetti sauce to wipe off. Yes. But it can be done. It can. It's just a whole lot harder. So if everyone listening to this podcast, do it now. Whatever stage you're at and whatever you got, do these Holdin' the Comm techniques, do it now and you will have a better trajectory. I promise you, this is magic bean stuff.
 
Dr. Cam (19:48)
It is, and I think it's really difficult because when we get in that, have such this, it's kind of ingrained in us that when there's a power struggle, you get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Instead of, I feel like what you're saying is that calm, and I kind of call it like being at the bottom of the ladder is where the power is, right? Instead of this escalation. But it feels to a lot of people that you're letting them take power over you and walk all over you. So how would you address people that feel like that is showing a weakness?
 
Hesha Abrams (20:25)
Yep, good. That's a very, very good question. So again, if I have a fork, I can eat with it, I can comb my hair with it, or I can stab you with it. Right? It's all a technique. So if you're feeling that, then you're a person that is not, has not been able yet to hold onto your own power. So if you can't do it verbally, let's say you're not, let's say you're an introvert and you're not a big verbal person and your kid's a big verbal person. That's hard. You are not going to out -argue somebody who is a better arguer than you. You're just not gonna do it. So play a different game. Say we're not playing football, we're playing golf. I'm gonna change the size of the ball or tennis. I'm gonna change the size of the ball. So what the best technique you've got is silence. You've got body language. So let's say, just use an example, you're railing at me. I can't out -talk you. I don't have the energy. What if I'm sick? What if I'm tired? What if I'm just an introvert? What if I just can't put up with your anymore, right? And you're railing at me. So I can't do it that way. So what do you do? You withdraw from the situation.
 
I named the emotion. You seem very upset. I'm not upset, I'm angry. Okay? You seem like you're very angry. I do it. Your sympathetic nervous system is going to have a need to copy mine. I don't say to you take a deep breath. I just go I'd like to try to work this through. I admire how passionate you are think we could use a do -over to maybe handle this better, don't you think?
 
Because I'm not sure it's coming out the way either one of us want. Now, who has the power in that situation? OK? So what happens is if I'm not 300 pounds of muscle, I'm not playing football. I'm not going to do it. Why would I do that? I'm better at golf or tennis or soccer or ping pong. I have the power. I'm going to change the game. And you know the proof, parents, that you have the power? They're arguing with you. If you didn't have the power, they would take the car keys and go!
 
Dr. Cam (22:54)
Exactly. I love that too because arguing is actually in this weird way a sign of respect because they need to convince you. Otherwise they wouldn't even try. So I think that is so important to know that if they are having this conversation, they're not disrespecting you. They're actually respecting you, but in an emotionally, in a way that's not emotionally regulated.
 
Hesha Abrams (23:02)
Correct. mean, they're doing it, you know, I know we use emotional regulation and all that, and I think it's great word. I tend to look at it as a skillset. They have a poor skillset. Then I have to say as a parent, do I have a poor skillset? Am I modeling good skillset behavior? That's the honest ownership you have to do privately as a parent. And that's why, again, I wrote this little book. I I do these techniques with big executives. I do big stuff.
 
Dr. Cam (23:24)
It is. Yes.
 
Hesha Abrams (23:47)
Why can't regular people have access to it? So, and I did the book, you know, 20 chapters, 20 techniques. They don't have to be done in order. You just move them around and you try one and go, that actually works. So you improve your skillset. Then you model it for them and everything's going to get better. It's, it's really, it's really magic and it doesn't take long. That's the thing. You don't have to take some PhD course or take some study or get certified or read some big fat book. No, it's a simple little something. You do this today. You know, it's really one of the things when I was young and as a mediator and I was wanting to get better at hard things, I was at a Walmart returning something and my God, the level of conflict and difficulty was off the charts. And I stayed there for two hours just watching, just watching and listening. How would I have handled that? How could I have diffused that?
 
How could I have moved it along? I learned so much because I saw so many different kinds of people and I saw the interaction. Well, I wouldn't have handled it that way. I would handle it this way. And I did that when I was young, you cause I'm a mediator. I get all these people coming into a room with me. I don't have time to say, please, let me analyze you and know who you are. You you got to do stuff fast. People will tell you who they are very quickly, you know? And if you're lactose intolerant,
 
Why am I shoving ice cream at you? You're gluten free. Why am I shoving pizza at you? I'm going to say, I got you a cauliflower crust. And people go, whoa, that was so thoughtful of you. mean, you can change the entire tone. Let's say you've been having a lot of conflict with your teenager for a month, just a lot. Make them their favorite dinner that night. Or buy them their favorite cake and say, you know what? We've been having a lot of conflict. And I have to tell you,
 
You couldn't pay me to be a teenager again. It is so hard. Hormones are busting through your body. High school is terrible. Boys and girls and where do I fit in and what do I, it's, you know what? You just need a break. And I just want to give you a break. And then you make them the favorite dinner or the favorite dessert or something. You don't think you did a 180 on them? They're going to go, whoa, whoa. And that's like giving away power or enabling. It's seeing their struggle, which makes you an ally in the struggle. And that's the question for all parents. Would anybody raise your hands, go back and be a teenager? I mean, seriously.
I wouldn't. So we have to have compassion on these people. We have to just, you know, there's a Jewish word called Rachmanis. And it's such a good word because it comes from the word Recha, which means womb. So when you have compassion, it comes from your womb. That's where it comes from, this deep. It's not about being right or wrong or good or bad. It's Rachmanis. It's compassion.
 
Dr. Cam (26:40)
I always say we want to be sitting on the same side of the bench, not opposing each other, right? Like we're helping them along. And I think it's so hard for parents to not take it personally. Cause like you said, we want our kids to like us. We want them to respect us. And if we feel like they don't, we get hurt, we get angry, we respond out of that emotion and we make it about us. And the second we make it about us, we are not making it about them which is why they're acting out.
 
Hesha Abrams (27:22)
That's exactly well done. So let me give you a suggestion when that happens, parents, and a kid says something and you're pissed. So you can't use, you you're not holding the column just yet. You know what you can say? Excuse me?
 
Dr. Cam (27:33)
Yes, exactly.
 
Hesha Abrams (27:39)
And that's it, because there's nothing to fight. There's no target. They have to stop for a minute. Like, what just happened? What just happened here? So for you that are introverted, you're tired, you're cranky, I don't know what to say, I don't know how to say it. Excuse me? That just gives you a pause into which now you can do something else. These are just great, you know, because you can say all day long, be calm, stand still, take a deep breath.
 
Dr. Cam (28:09)
It just makes them more angry. As it would us. If our team told us and our teens do tell us you need to calm down, ooh, no, right? They react the same way. So it's, we got to think about that. H, I want to ask you, cause this, I've seen this situation and I know people listening specifically have this situation where their teen gets pretty aggressive and they're bigger than them now and they kind of come in their face and get at them.
 
Hesha Abrams (28:17)
It just, it's terrible. As you all see.
 
Dr. Cam (28:44)
and they try to walk away and they just follow them, right? And they just follow and yell and the more they try to stay quiet and disappear, the more their teen kind of jumps on them. How do they handle that situation?
 
Hesha Abrams (28:47)
Right. So that one's tough. I, you know, I would say not in every situation, but in most situations you let the spaghetti sauce get dry. Okay. So now you've got a problem. You've got a bigger kid who's more aggressive and you walking away gives them power. So can't do that. Okay. So what I would do is, cause you have to get this re -changed because at 16, it's bad at 24, it's even worse. Okay. So at some point you just have to do it.
 
So what I would do is change, again, I keep talking about change the football to a tennis ball, from a big ball to a small ball. Let's say they're following you, sit down, go sit in a chair. Okay, now they can lean over you with the chair, but you can do this in the chair, right? You can say, I can't hear you when you're yelling at me.
 
Dr. Cam (29:46)
Yeah, do you know in a way?.
 
Hesha Abrams (29:55)
If they're talking so much, it's only output that's happening. You need input to be able to happen, right? I can't hear you when you're yelling at me and let them keep yelling and you stop talking, but you just sit there and go, I can't hear you when you're yelling at me. Now what I've had families do, I've had church groups do, HOAs do, businesses do is they all buy the book and they have a little book clue. And then, but then you have the same lexicon. So you can say we're holding the con together or this is your magic beans, or whatever the words are, or I'm gonna give you a wowed, a way out with dignity. Very often, people need to have a wowed. People, they've screwed up, they've screwed up bad, but they need a wowed, a way out with dignity. So you can sometimes say you need a wowed. They go, what? You know, and say, you know what? I know this is not at your best, and I know you're having trouble doing it. Okay, let me give you another technique. I call it, I literally invented this with my grandchildren, because I was too, I didn't know this when I was a young parent. So when my kid was angry or the grandchild was angry, they were so angry, they can't get out of it. You can't use any words. So I taught them to dinosaur it out. If you take your hand and see your fingernails right here, dig your fingernails hard into the fatty part. You pinch it. Give yourself a little pinch like it hurts a little bit. What it does is it interrupts the synapses on the sympathetic nervous system. Anger, anger, anger, woo, rallying around like that. You do this and now, ow, there's something here. It's a reason why people would smack you across the face, which obviously we're not gonna do, or wear a rubber band and they'd snap the rubber band. If you've got a kid that has an anger problem, teach them the technique and put a rubber band on their hand so they can do it to themselves when you feel out of control. 
They know they're out of control. They don't like it any more than you like it, but they don't know what to do. So you're helping them snap that rubber band a couple of times. And what it does is it, it's the equivalent of smacking someone across the face to where you go, whoa, what just happened? teach this. I mean, I use it and I've taught this to adults too. So, cause adults, you know, we have times where it just for whatever reason, you know, the sympathetic nervous system is totally engaged and you can't change it.
 
So I'm not gonna smack you across the face, but I may say, hey, I won't say you dinosaur it out. I'm gonna say, hey, let's dinosaur it out. And I'll do this. And then sometimes I'll go, dinosaur it out. Come on, do it with me. Dinosaur it out. And you do that instead of saying, you're mad, you're angry. You need to calm down. What's wrong with you? How is that helpful? But if I can see that you're doing that, I'm gonna go, ooh, the dinosaur is out baby, it's dinosaur down. Think about how does the other person react when you do that? They're gonna go, and then it's fun. Now they're gonna go in, then you get to do the, okay, can we do a do over? I really respect how you did that. You did a very good dinosauring it out. Cause my big emotions are awful. They come over you like a hurricane.
 
Hesha Abrams (33:20)
And you handled that so well. All I had to do was suggest dinosaur -ing it out to you. And you did it. God, I'm proud of you. Well done. That messaging.
 
Dr. Cam (33:30)
And then you're focusing on the positive of it and not belaboring the issue of it. And that's again, going into that solution. And everything that you're saying is focused on what we do rather than what we're making our teens do or the child or the person that's upset. Our job is not to change them because we can't. Our job is to show up differently. And when we show up differently,
 
Hesha Abrams (33:37)
Correct.
 
Dr. Cam (34:01)
It changes because those mirror neurons or just we're not adding anymore to the anger and to the emotion. So it's really all about how do we show up and there's, again, you said there's so much power in not losing it.
 
Hesha Abrams (34:16)
so much. And when you do, because I want to make sure you're going to lose it, catch yourself. And then you can say, I'm going to dinosaur this out because I'm feeling so angry right now. I can't really think I'm going to dinosaur it out. Your kids going to look at you like, what the heck? But what are you doing? You're modeling skillset development. You're modeling good behavior. So what happens when they're mad at a teacher or on the football field or with a friend? Are they going to blow up at them? Are they going to get arrested because they threw a punch?
 
or have you taught them how to handle big emotions? How about, God, when I was young, a young mother, I read this story of a high school football quarterback who was wealthy, blessed, good looking, good at school, like he just had everything. And he was dating, of course, you know, the head cheerleader and she dumped him. And he went home, took his dad's gun, put it in his mouth and killed himself.
 
And I remember reading that and thinking, this is a kid who never was taught how to handle big emotions, how to handle disappointment. So when disappointment happened, it was cataclysmic. It was earth shattering. There was no solution or no way out. So as a parent, you need to be able to teach your children, crap's going to happen, bad crap. And you're going to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and go on. It's not the end of the world.
 
You teach them how to handle extreme disappointment, extreme sadness, extreme anger. You have to teach them how to do that, otherwise they can't be adults. They won't know how to do it. And if no one taught you, give yourself grace and you teach you now. No one taught me these things. I had to teach myself, but now they're mine. And do you know how powerful I feel? Because they're mine. And then when I share them and teach them, the other person feels
 
Hesha Abrams (36:16)
the authenticity, the honesty, the power and says, ooh, I want some of that too. Great, great.
 
Dr. Cam (36:25)
Hesha, I want to point out to what you're saying because I think this is so critical for parents to grasp. We are not trying to stop them from feeling anger. We are not trying to stop them from even deep sadness. Those are things I think we have this knee -jerk reaction to want to make them feel better and make them want to stop that emotion because it makes us uncomfortable. And what you're saying is, if we don't,
 
If we force them to stop it and then they can't, they don't know how to handle it. So this is about giving them the space to be angry, even at us. And that's okay. We just, we keep our space so that their anger is not making us angry. We're not taking it personally. We're going there experiencing anger. It doesn't mean that they're hurting us. And I think...
 
Hesha Abrams (37:00)
I love it when you said that. And you know, I they have so many techniques about that that are not, you know, new, like scream into a pillow, you know, punch into something like that. There are times where something is so angry. I may say to the kid, you know what, let's scream into a pillow and go and we pick up a pillow and just scream into it and do it with them as opposed to you're the little weirdo. You need to scream into a pillow. No, let's do it together. And you know what? Within 30 seconds, they're laughing.
 
They're laughing. That's what's so amazing about this. They're laughing.
 
Dr. Cam (37:52)
Okay, I have another specific question I want to ask you as you're saying that because I have several clients too whose kids, when they get upset, will literally kick the walls, kick the door in, create holes in the walls. How do we redirect that? We're not going to make them stop feeling angry, but how do we help redirect that so they're not destructive?
 
Hesha Abrams (38:15)
Well, again, I'm gonna say as parents, you gotta own that you didn't wipe up the spaghetti sauce when it was wet. Otherwise you're never gonna fix it. You're just gonna go, it's the way they are, whatever. No, there's some ownership to that. You didn't know, I didn't know. No one teaches this stuff. That's why you are doing your podcast. That's why I wrote my book. No one teaches this stuff. So we're trying to get it out there. So if it's already happened, a problem's already happened. So now you have to be corrective. So your job is to see the trajectory. It doesn't go from, I'm going to kick the wall instantly. I guarantee you. And here, the proof of it, why do I call my book, Holding the Calm, The Secret to Resolving Conflict and Diffusing Tension? So here, long title. Why would they make such a long title on this? Because all conflict, 100 % of it, starts with tension. And the tension can be this.
 
Dr. Cam (38:57)
There you go. Love it.
 
Hesha Abrams (39:09)
Or it can be this, it can be mm. It can be all of that, right? So you have to start being attuned to your kid. What are the warning signals? Wipe that spaghetti sauce up when it's wet. Get into it right away and say, ooh, ooh, you're looking like you're getting angry. It's pillow time, let's go. And start screaming into the pillow. Or sometimes jumping jacks, let's go. Pushups, let's go. You know, something that is physical, that is the snap that is the dinosaur in it out, screaming into a pillow, jumping up and down. You're teaching them that when the feelings happen, because you're a human being, this is how we handle it. When they're kicking or destructive, it's just because they don't know any better. Because the feeling is a tsunami, it's a hurricane, it's a tornado. And they just, can't get the energy out of themselves. So you have to, I guarantee you there were 10 steps before that. I guarantee you. And what happens is you're not noticing it or you're not reacting to it, catch it early, then what are you also teaching them? How they should do it. Let's say there's a parent in the household that punches a wall when he's angry. I mean, you know, so, and a spouse is a lot harder to train, but when you see the kid doing it and you train the kid, it's a conversation for the spouse also, because nobody wants to be a raging lunatic. Nobody. I don't care if you're a kid or an adult, you've just lost control. And if you say to someone, gain control,
 
Get calm, breathe. If I could, I would. So help me, right? So help. That's all it is. you know what's best for your kids. know, sometimes, you know, if it's a little kid, let's make funny faces. No one make funny faces. And then they start laughing. It's anything designed to interrupt that sympathetic nervous system so that they can get a break. And then sometimes it may be, okay.
 
Okay, there's a big issue here. We need to talk about that. And God, am I proud of you for riding that dragon. Well, that was a bunking brocco. It was rolling you all over the place and you rode it. Good for you. Then you get into what was it? And often it was not whatever it's presented to be. It's some something else, whatever, whatever, whatever. That's how you clean it up. You know, so.
 
Dr. Cam (41:32)
I think that point is really key too, because we often look at exactly what just happened as the problem and often, and again, it's a sign that they feel safe around us when they're able to show that ugly emotion in front of us, because they hold it in all day where they're not safe, and then they come. So it's this really awkward compliment that we get all the ugly emotion but when we teach them how to make it through it, then we're really using that opportunity. love it. So, Keisha, what is one we've, my gosh, there's so much great stuff we just covered. what is like kind of one big takeaway you want to make sure parents walk away with from this?
 
Hesha Abrams (42:17)
Give yourself grace, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again. News alert, you're not perfect. You're not supposed to be perfect. It's impossible to be perfect, but you can keep trying to get better. And best is the enemy of better. That's what I tell people. Just get better. That's all. And you're gonna teach them how to get better. And then in the end, it's gonna be good.
 
It's gonna be good. I bless everybody. It's gonna be good. That's why I wrote this little, and you know what? I had people wanting me to make it a workbook and more expensive and a fancy thing. I said, no. I wanted a little cheap $15 paperback that can be read in two hours. Quick, little, simple, so that you can do something right now. That's
 
Dr. Cam (42:47)
There we go.Thank you so much for jumping on. know there's, I'm sending this to a lot of people already I can think of that are really going to take, get some good, good insights from this. So thank you for that.
 
Hesha Abrams (43:14)
My pleasure, everybody.
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

How to Overcome Parenting Overwhelm: Manage Stress & Support Your Teen Without Burning Out

Parenting teens is exhausting, overwhelming, and—let’s be honest—frustrating. But what if the key to handling it all isn’t about controlling their behavior? In this episode, Dr. Cam and Heather Chauvin dive into the power of self-care, emotional intelligence, and shifting your parenting mindset. Learn why focusing on your own growth and well-being can actually make you a more effective parent—and create a healthier, more connected relationship with your teen.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
Why parenting teens feels so overwhelming—and how to manage it
The surprising link between self-care and parenting success
How to stop perfectionism from sabotaging your parenting
The game-changing shift from control to curiosity
Simple strategies to strengthen your connection with your teen
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Parenting teens can be emotionally exhausting—taking care of yourself helps you show up better.
You are more than just a parent—self-identity matters.
Perfectionism is a coping strategy—not a personality trait. Let it go!
Curiosity is key—observing instead of controlling leads to better communication.
Self-respect influences how your teen treats you—it all starts with you.
 
🎧 ENJOYING THE SHOW?
Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes packed with practical tips just for you! Thanks for your support! 🙌
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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
📖 Book: Dying to Be a Good Mother by Heather Chauvin
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Parenting Teens02:58 Heather Chauvin’s Journey to Empowerment06:11 The Importance of Self-Identity in Parenting08:56 Managing Overwhelm and Perfectionism11:58 The Role of Self-Care in Parenting15:03 Shifting Focus: From Control to Curiosity17:55 Energetic Time Management for Parents20:53 Creating a Healthy Parent-Child Dynamic24:01 Embracing Emotional Intelligence in Parenting26:59 The Power of Self-Respect and Connection
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Heather Chauvin
Website: HeatherChauvin.com
Instagram: @HeatherChauvin_
YouTube: Heather Chauvin
Podcast: The Mom Is In Control Podcast
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam
Parents, let's face it, parenting teens can be emotionally and mentally exhausting. We're constantly juggling their mood challenges and the pressure of guiding them through some of the most difficult years of their lives and ours. The weight of always trying to say the right thing, keep the peace, and manage our own stress can lead of us feeling drained and overwhelmed. So how do we support our teens without burning out?
 
That's why I've invited Heather Chauvin to join us today. Heather is a leadership coach who helps successful women break free from the overwhelm and live, work, and parent with courage and authenticity. She's been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur, and Real Simple Magazine. And she's here today to share strategies to help us lighten the emotional load, manage stress, and stay grounded so we can show up for our teens without losing ourselves in the process. Heather, welcome.
 
Heather Chauvin (00:56)
I'm so excited for this conversation. Thank you.
 
Dr. Cam (01:00)
Me too. So let's just start with your backstory. I love doing that. How did you get into leader leading women and getting into that?
 
Heather Chauvin (01:08)
Well, it's actually funny and not so funny because teens, I have three boys, they're 19. Next month will be 15 and 12. And I'm incredibly passionate about raising this specific generation of teens because, or this age group. Because I was a teenager when I actually became a mother. I was 18 years old and that was my first cracking into personal development in my first moment as a mother, as a human, and as a small child or a young adult coming into the world, just with hitting that primal fear of not wanting to feel like I'm failing as a mother. And I remember looking at my son thinking, I don't want to become a statistic. I don't want us to become a statistic. And I need to do whatever I can in my power to become the adults that I most desire you to be. And the pendulum kind of swung where I was this overwhelmed, anxious teenager who wasn't behavioral. I didn't act out. I kind of retreated. And because I kind of swung the pendulum, of course, my nervous system was not regulated. And I started to become the overachiever. And I went and got a social work degree. I did all the things, I was checking the boxes. I was looking outside of myself for validation of like, am I good? Am I good? Is this what a good mother does? Is this what a good woman does? And internally, I felt like I was dying. Like I could just feel the burnout. I could feel the burnout and exhaustion, but I was like, this is not sustainable. And I knew that at a young age. And I had the whereabouts with me to ask for help, as we should. I went to therapy.
 
I went to the doctors and I started doing the traditional things and the feedback I was getting was like, like we were talking about the problem, but I wasn't getting like solutions to fix the problem or like I say fix, but like tools to implement and a strategy to physically like head in the right direction. I felt completely lost and like I was begging people to help me and the feedback was kind of like, this is adulthood, suck it up buttercup, you know, this is motherhood and But a part of me just wouldn't accept that. Fast forward, after leaving my corporate job as a social worker, I decided to really be the change I wanted to be in the world or make the change. And I started my podcast, started my business. And then I was diagnosed with a stage four cancer. My body was bleeding like please take care of yourself. I didn't understand the signs and symptoms and all the things. And that was, had nine years of personal development under my belt. I also had nine years of conscious parenting research and starting to help people see and understand their children's behavior. And it was, it was that moment where I was like, ladies, because I was primarily talking to women, like we need to stop just solely focused on the child and the child's behavior because we are part of the equation because at the moment I would hear feedback from my clients, cause I was a coach and they would say things to me like, I don't have time to implement this. My marriage is falling apart. My career is falling apart. I'm chronically overwhelmed. I'm feeling depleted. And I was like, okay, but we're focused over here. And then I was like, we need to look at both sides of the coin, both sides of the equation. And that was over a decade ago. Since then still helping women with the exact same issue, but at a different level and really supporting them to feel whole and fulfilled and alive and energized both at home and in their work.
 
Dr. Cam (05:11)
I think a lot of people are going to be relating to this because that sense of overwhelm and needing to be perfect in every aspect of our lives. And women have so many different parts of their lives that they feel the need to be perfect in. And I think when it comes to parenting, especially with parenting teens, and all of a sudden we have the teen dynamics to deal with, a lot of us do feel like we're completely failing. And I see parents that will push that aside and just focus on what they're good at, right? So they just kind of blame the teen, go, that's the problem and I'm gonna focus here. Or they're so focused on trying to fix it and not being able to that they just start crumbling a little bit. So how do we get to a place, first of all, where we get into a good head space about who we are as a parent and what that looks like to be successful as a parent?
 
Heather Chauvin (06:11)
Yeah, I think we need to stop labeling ourselves as mother or parent and start labeling ourselves as a human being because when we're putting them, we're over identifying with our labels and our roles and we're under identifying with who we are as a person and that we actually have basic human needs that are not being met to be seen, heard, love, understood. mean, freaking hydrated sunlight, like meals.Like the basics are not being met. And so I can identify with this in my own journey of like, who am I without being a mother? But the second your child turns a teen or you're starting to notice those hormonal changes, I mean, we had quite the time during COVID, like raising my oldest teenager, and it can be a shock to your system and you're gaining momentum, right? And you're like, what am I doing wrong?
 
And I think we have to stop making it about us and start being curious and observant as to what is actually going on in front of us. We take things so personal because we care so much. And I don't think we can argue with any parent that you don't love your children, right? Sometimes we have to learn how to manage that love because if we're not managing it or having boundaries with it, we're actually over -nurturing and over -compensating. And so whether it's overwhelm or perfectionism, so I always tell people like, write this down. Perfectionism is a coping strategy. It's not a personality trait. You don't say I'm a perfectionist. It's like you cope with perfectionism And when you can see you cope with perfectionism, you can see that as the blanket, as the mask. And then you begin to become curious as to why you do what you do. And again, overwhelm is a symptom. So if you are overwhelmed, that's a symptom. That's not a way of being. It's not a lifestyle. We do not need to accept feeling a certain way just because it's normal. And so cancer taught me that, but even way before that, I had this thought as to like, why do I need to feel like crap just because I'm a mother? Why do, and the reality is like going from the journey of, I mean, my son's almost 20 now, realizing that.
 
What actually saved me and helped my son going through the most difficult time and transition in his life was the fact that I had the mental, emotional and physical and spiritual capacity to hold him in his most vulnerable transition from childhood to adulthood. And that is, I just remember thinking again and again, damn, if I didn't do this work before I would be experiencing way more overwhelm in my life going through this transition and that saved me. But it is that belief that taking care of our needs takes away from other people. It's kryptonite to success in parenting.
 
Dr. Cam (09:40)
I think there's almost this badge of honor people wear when they are so overwhelmed and busy. Like we say it as though it's like a brag, like, my gosh, I've got so much, when we're just haggard and exhausted. So I think first of all, that's almost like if we have it together, it's like, well, why aren't you doing enough kind of thing? Like you're saying no to stuff, who do you think you are? So I think there's this misconception of what it means to be a successful and involved parent and what that looks like. So the first thing is really separating that out. So in your mind, what does it look like to be a healthy, successful parent when it's not overwhelmed in doing everything?
 
Heather Chauvin (10:39)
So, okay, so number one, you said something that when we're complaining or we're wearing busy as a badge of honor or we're trying to connect, it's the first thing that happens when you go to a kid's sporting event or you're hanging out, like in mom groups. I'm using mom in general, it can be parents in general. But you see this look in their eyes and their eyes get a little bit bigger and they're like, are you suffering like me?
 
Are you struggling like me? Because as human beings, we desire connection and belonging. And sometimes we're over identifying our suffering and our challenges with each other. It's like a little trauma bond, right? Like, are you struggling like me too? I just want to make sure that, you know, we're all in this together. And I'm always like, yes, and I want to have the opposite conversation. So.
 
I want to tell a quick story. So when I was diagnosed with cancer and I tell people that was like a bump in the road for me, but that's not who I am and it's not my whole story. So maybe you haven't had a health diagnosis, but maybe there's something else in your life that has kept you up at night. And it could be your child's behavior, your team's behavior, your team's future failure to launch or something, their mental health, their emotional wellbeing. So I want you to consider this. So I remember coming home one night from the hospital. I was in transition from like, was in a recovery state and I woke up in the middle of the night, two, three o 'clock in the morning. I need to quickly have your panic attacks, your body's like, and I was in the bathroom and I remember feeling like number one, I cannot burden anybody with my feelings. I need to keep this in and I need to keep it quiet. And I went in the bathroom and I was crying because I was having a panic attack.
 
And the story I was telling myself in my mind is I'm going to die. My body was in a state of fight or flight. And I'm like, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. At that point, I had enough coaching under my belt and self -awareness that I could get myself out of the state of fear and into the present moment. And I was like, I'm going to die. going to die. I'm going to die. I'm like, Heather, you are still alive. You are still alive. Come back to this present moment.
 
And then I asked myself this question. How do you want to feel? If you know you don't want to feel chronically overwhelmed, chronically fatigued, angry, frustrated, resentful, exhausted, and for me, dead inside and in a state of fight or flight, how do I want to feel? And in that moment, I didn't technically know how I wanted to feel, but I knew how I didn't want to feel. And I didn't want to feel, I didn't want to feel like I was dying.
 
So the opposite of that was living. I wanted to feel alive. So I repeated in my mind, I wanna feel alive, I wanna feel alive, I wanna feel alive. And then Dr. Cam, I got scared and fear came over me again because I had no evidence of how to feel alive. And I realized in the moment that I wasn't
 
It wasn't that I didn't have time to implement. It wasn't that I didn't have the tools. It was that I wasn't giving myself permission to go to that next level in how I wanted to feel and kind of open that door of uncertainty and the unknown. But because of my situation, I had no other way. I was like, Heather, if you do not figure out how to feel alive and energized,
 
the literally your deepest fear will come true. And it still may come true, but that's the uncertainty of life. So the only way out is through. only way is up. The only way is going after who you wanna be and how you wanna feel. And so the next day I asked myself, how do I wanna feel? How do I wanna feel? How do I wanna feel? And I started taking action in that direction.
 
What would an alive person do? The reason why this story is so important is because I am the foundation of my children's wellbeing. And I am not responsible for my children's behavior in the sense of like, I cannot control their behavior, but I can influence it. And there is a connectedness.
 
So I can be the role model and I can be the guide and I can show them what's possible for them and become the type of person that I most desire my child to be, but I cannot do the work for them. And so when my teen was struggling, could see, I could see the fear. I could see the paralyzed uncertainty of like, I need to make a decision on my future. And there's so much unknown cause this is so new to me and I'm afraid. And I could empathize with that because I knew what it looked like and felt like to sit in my fear and yet take action in the direction of what my soul craved. Take action in the direction of how I wanted to feel. So I could see an older version of myself and I'm like, I have a tool and I know how I did that. So I'm gonna be your and guide you in that direction. But you have to choose if you want to take that action or not. And there were many, many times where I had to do that again and again and again, whether it was in the educational system or whether it was with having uncomfortable conversations with my husband or my son or his support team, where I had to say, I feel like I'm backed into a corner. Who do I want to be?
 
How do I want to feel and how can I take a stand for this child regardless of his future?
 
Dr. Cam (17:03)
Wow, that's a lot. And that's a complete shift because now your focus is on your response and you and what you're doing and not how do I make my child do this? How do I make my child change that? How do I make other people do what I need them to do to feel okay? It's what do I need to do to feel okay?
 
Heather Chauvin (17:28)
Just this conversation makes me think, so I am a, and I'm sure we all know what that's like. If you're raising a fierce, independent, rebellious child, I don't know about you, but as an adult, when people are trying to control me, I feel I'm like so turned off and I actually push that person away. So if I have a new friend in my life, And they're like texting me every day and I'm like, don't have the capacity for this. Like I'll text you. I'm the person that like, you're like 911, I need you. But if it's not a real 911, this is not going to be it. So I know the more I try to control my children, the more they're going to push me away. And so I've learned to read emotional behavior and call myself out too, that if I say I need to fix him, because I still do this, I need to fix him.
 
I'm like, what is this triggering inside of me? Okay, it's triggering fear. Okay, why am I afraid? Well, if he doesn't change, he's gonna become a drug addict and he's gonna do this and he's gonna live in my basement forever and he's gonna, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Come back to the present moment. If I'm trying to control somebody else outside of me, that means there's something inside of me that I feel out of control.
 
And then so I go inward and I go, first of all, number one, what do I need to control within me? That's my work to do. But I'm also gonna be mindful that this behavior is like a red flag to me and I am concerned. So I'm not gonna avoid it. And this is what I don't appreciate about the parenting space right now is that they've swung where it's like, it's all about you, manage yourself, manage yourself.
 
And I'm like, yes, and we still need to look at our children's behavior and be like, they are talking to us. So if there is a behavior that is concerning to you, pay attention to it, but control yourself at the same time and then say, hey, let's have a conversation about this. How can I help you? How can I advocate? But come from a different energy and not a controlling energy, but more of a curious energy of a co -creation.
 
Dr. Cam (19:23)
I'm 100 % with the curious. I think that is the most important thing is understanding the why and you're absolutely right. It's not a, okay, they're going to go do their thing. I'm going to go do my thing. there's, we are still responsible for guiding them and for modeling for them. And so when we're, let's say we're talking to parents right now that are listening and they're in that mode of just, they're so overwhelmed right now. They're just like, I don't even know where to begin my teen isn't studying and doing their homework and I've got the school calling me and I have another one that just won't even go to school and I have another one that, and I just, I don't know where to start. Like you're saying that I need to focus on me, but I don't have time because there's too much other stuff that I need to deal with. What is the first thing that I can do right now to start shifting into this place where I'm more focused on taking care of how I'm showing up when I don't feel like I even have the ability to do that right now.
 
Heather Chauvin (20:53)
Okay, so number one, this is my favorite thing to teach people. It's called energetic time management. Pen and paper. So you're gonna have to listen to this again and again, but this is, love giving actionable steps. Number one, brain dump it all. Pen and paper, just let it out. When you're like, I'm frozen, I don't know what to do, I'm so overwhelmed, I have all this energy coming at me just dump it out. Like I like to categorize things. So I'll be like, the school is calling for this kid. I would put kids in buckets and then all the things I had to do. Then ask yourself how, so the brain dump is just to get it out. Every time I tell people this, they're like, I feel lighter already. I'm like, just get it out. Sometimes you don't even need to do anything with it. It's like get it out and your brain dumps might be the same thing over and over and over again.
 
The second thing is I am a huge fan of this journal prompt and it's, wouldn't it be nice if. So I'm not asking you what's your dreams or desires. I'm asking you what, or I am asking you what your desires are. I'm not asking you what you want. I'm saying magic wand, wouldn't it be nice if, and you can, you can like write down little things like, wouldn't it be nice if I had a glass of water right now? Wouldn't it be nice if the weather wasn't cold?
 
So some of these things you can control, some you can't control. Just dump it all out. It be small things, big things. This is data. This is breadcrumbs. These are desires that are inside of you. The second thing is once you take that list, figure out the feeling that you're after. So Danielle Laporte taught me forever ago, it's not the thing you're after, it's the feeling. This is like the core of manifestation. Okay, it's...
 
It's a gray sky outside. Wouldn't it be nice if the sun was out? Why? How do I think I'm going to feel when the sun is out? Wouldn't it be nice if we had a bigger home? Why do I want a bigger home? Because I want to feel more spacious. Wouldn't it be nice if I had more money in the bank? Why do you want more money in the bank? I want to feel safe. like all of this is data as to figuring out how to feel in control of your feelings because
 
I've seen this is what we usually do is we write down this list, we go after it, check, check, check, check, check. You got the more money in the bank, you got the bigger house and guess what? You're more stressed out, you feel more depleted, you're more angry, frustrated. So when we know how we want to feel, then we can start reverse engineering that. And the feeling is the guiding light. The feeling is the North Star. Then when the school calls,
 
When the report card comes in, when your child is retreating or reacting, you are coming from a more fulfilled, full place and you can be curious. When your brain is operating in the state of fight or flight or survival mode, you are just trying to get your basic human needs met. And so you have to, have to.
 
to be quote unquote successful at being present for your children, take care of yourself from a mental, physical, emotional and spiritual perspective. And to me, spiritual perspective is desires. There's bigger beliefs of, know, whatever you believe that's on you. But to me, when I started going, I crave, you know, wouldn't it be nice if and it was like these random things. like, I can't self abandon my needs forever because then I become angry and resentful. Regardless of my body shutting down, I start to project onto my kids. I start yelling, my marriage feels disconnected. So it is really understanding that the most unselfish thing you can do when you are in a state of overwhelm is to take care of everybody else but yourself.
 
So number one, brain dump. Number two, ask yourself, wouldn't it be nice if, look at that list, ask yourself, what is the feeling that you're really, really after? And then that's where the reverse engineering comes in. And I talk a lot about that on my podcast.
 
Dr. Cam (25:28)
I love that and what a great thing to model to our kids too, right? Because when we start taking care of ourselves and showing up more calmly and showing up more confidently, it changes how our kids show up with us, right? And then we don't have all the stress because we feel connected. And when we let go of the need to control,
 
That reduces a ton of stress too, because trying to control something you don't have control over is extraordinarily stressful.
 
Heather Chauvin (26:00)
and scary. I actually, call parenting personal growth on steroids. And I feel like zero to teen years is kind of like marathon training. And the teen years are the race where you were like, WTF, what did I get myself into? I'm in the middle of a hurricane. And you, it is, you kind of do feel like you're backed into a corner because It triggers everything you need to look at in order to show up and lead for your kids. Every woman I work with, 99 .9 % of them are raising children. It's a different dynamic than someone who is not responsible for another human being and their wellbeing. It triggers your deepest wounds. It has triggered so much fear inside of me of I'm not enough, I'm gonna mess this up. like, what if I fail to being afraid to use my voice and then having to walk into a school and advocate and use my voice to talk to other adults that I need to figure out how to sell myself and sell this concept to them. Like from a sales perspective, it's helped me so much in business being seen and really really taking deep deep care of myself and showing up to those challenges from this perspective rather than what we're taught culturally is Mind -blowing to me. It is this counterintuitive way because I'm healthier than I've ever been in my entire life. I have I I'm I'm thriving in all areas of my life and challenged as well. But the mindset that I have, I never would have gotten here without being a mother. And that is so opposite of what we're taught culturally that you can't do both. You can't be successful over here and feel successful as a parent. But when you take on the identity as like, this is a leadership role. And when you learn to lead and feel alive, and have more energy, that's the secret. All the books are telling you.
 
Dr. Cam (28:30)
Absolutely. And I feel like because we're out there working and building this, like our other identity and this other focus, that to me is in my daughter. That's what my daughter looks at. And she comes to me and says, Mom, I see what you're doing, which means I know I can do it. And she's learning from me being more than a mom. And then I'm able to put so much more into being a mom because that's not, I'm focused more on just being there and supporting her, not controlling and doing every little aspect of her life, right? Which gives me the freedom, and she's appreciative of that. Like she does, they don't want us doing that. That's not what they need, right? So that frees us up a lot.
 
Heather Chauvin (29:17)
And when you have that honest, connected relationship with your child, they're like, please get a hobby. Please leave the house. Please focus on something else. My son will call me out. And I'm like, well, sometimes I think you're just trying to be a little manipulative, but sometimes you're being honest. And I could never have that conversation with my parents growing up. And I think that's the...
 
Dr. Cam (29:24)
Yes! Yes!
 
Heather Chauvin (29:42)
That's when you know you've healed. That's when you know you've shifted, where your children can give you honest feedback and vice versa. And you can do it in a respectful way.
 
Dr. Cam (29:51)
It doesn't feel threatening to you when you hear that. You're like, okay, good point. I don't feel disrespected. I feel like you're feeling comfortable with me and that changes everything. So Heather, what is one big thing that you want parents to take away from this episode?
 
Heather Chauvin (30:17)
Well, you just said something that was like stuck in my brain is respected. I hear from a lot of parents, I wanna feel respected. And if we want to, we teach people how to treat us. So if we wanna be respected by our children, we need to learn to respect ourselves. We need to learn to respect our bodies, what they're telling us. We need to learn to respect our time.
 
We need to learn to respect our wisdom. We need to learn to, to really take a stand for the value that we have as humans. Like we are more than just mother. And, you know, the reality is if we look externally, the world would not exist without mothers, right? There would be no, no like population and we call it mother earth for a reason. And so we need to learn to value and respect ourselves more so that we have a bigger voice in society. But our children will show us where we need to grow. And I think if we just adopt that philosophy of like, why is this happening for me, not to me, we show up differently and then we can create that connection and fulfillment. But I also don't believe in hard things. People talk, everything's hard, hard, hard, hard, hard. I think we're addicted to hard.
 
That's why my podcast is called Emotionally Uncomfortable because I'm like, how about we just, this is easy. The action is easy. It's just emotionally uncomfortable. So if I learn to become more emotionally intelligent and more attuned with my emotions, I can live in alignment with how I want to feel.
 
Dr. Cam (31:40)
it's happening for me rather than to me. It's such a small word shift, but an enormous mindset shift, which completely changes everything. Heather, how do people find you?
 
Heather Chauvin (32:13)
You can head on over to the podcast Emotionally Uncomfortable. My book is called Dying to Be a Good Mother, it's prescriptive memoir. And my website Heather Chauvin, C -H -A -U -V -I -N dot com, lots of free resources there. Always showing people the how to because if you do the work, you'll see results. So yeah, you can check out all the things.
 
Dr. Cam (32:37)
Phenomenal. Thank you so much for Heather. I really enjoyed talking to you.
 
Heather Chauvin (32:43)
Thanks Dr. Cam.
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

Positive Psychology Techniques to Boost Teen Mental Health: Simple Strategies for Parents

Dr. Cam Caswell is joined by Mark Fussell to explore powerful strategies for supporting teens' mental health. Mark shares insights from his platform, Take Two Minutes, which focuses on boosting mental wellness through positive psychology. They discuss practical tools like gratitude journaling, grounding exercises, and breathing techniques to help teens manage emotions and anxiety. The episode emphasizes the importance of patience, kindness, and love in fostering a supportive environment for teens' mental health.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How to support teens' mental health using positive psychology and proven techniques
Effective strategies for managing anxiety, including gratitude journaling and grounding exercises
The impact of gratitude on rewiring the brain for better emotional wellness
Why patience, kindness, and love are essential when supporting teens' mental health
Tips for fostering emotional resilience and helping teens bounce back from negativity
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Mental health is crucial for teens, and there are many ways parents can support their well-being.
Take Two Minutes platform offers accessible tools for enhancing mental wellness through positive psychology.
Gratitude journaling, grounding exercises, and breathing techniques are effective for reducing anxiety and improving emotional health.
Support requires patience and the willingness to try different strategies that resonate with your teen.
Positive reinforcement and kindness can help teens overcome emotional hurdles and thrive.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 
🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution—packed episode! 🙌
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Take Two Minutes platform - Website
Use coupon code "DRCAM" for 20% off Take Two Minutes platform.
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Supporting Teens' Mental Health
04:02 Tools for Managing Emotions and Anxiety
08:58 The Power of Gratitude in Rewiring the Brain
10:57 The Importance of Patience and Trying Different Strategies
12:32 Grounding Exercises for Calming Anxiety
18:31 Recognizing Positivity and Rebounding from Negative Experiences
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Mark Fussell
Website: take2minutes.org
Instagram: @take2min
Facebook: @take2min
YouTube: @take2min
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:02.636)
Today we're diving into a topic that couldn't be more crucial, your teens' mental health. As parents, we all want our kids to thrive emotionally, but knowing how to support them can sometimes feel overwhelming. So we've got some game -changing proven strategies that we're gonna give to you so they're right at your fingertips during the tough times. That's why I'm thrilled to have Mark Fussell with us today. Mark is the founder of Take Two Minutes, a platform that's all about boosting mental wellness through the science of positive psychology. Mark is here to share actionable techniques that you can start using right away. Welcome, Mark.
 
Marc S Fussell (00:40.344)
Thank you, Dr. Kam. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me.
 
Dr. Cam (00:43.248)
Yeah, this is a very important topic and I know I talk to a lot of parents that just want tools or like just tell us what we can do. So before we even get going, I would love to hear what sparked the idea of the Take Two Minutes.
 
Marc S Fussell (00:57.229)
It's interesting. It's actually my who now is my older son, but at the time he was much younger in 2015, my older son was in high school and he was struggling with what I call typical high school problems. And I say what I call because every everyone deals with things very differently. So when I heard of what was happening or what he was sad, depressed about in my mind, I was like, this is high school difficulties. And I decided to try to address it by something simple, which was sending him a message every day around noon. So in middle of his school day, letting him know he's loved, letting me know those people who care about him, just trying to lift his spirits. And that grew into me having a database of these positive messages. I'm a developer by heart. guess, you know, going back to my, my younger years, I was always a developer. So even when I was sending these messages to him, I was still in technology. And what I realized was every day when I wanted to send him a message, quite often I was in a meeting. I was doing something that was preoccupying my time. Further, most of my positivity was happening in the morning when I was either exercising or doing yoga or meditating. And around noon, as you may know, we have more stressful lives. And so I put together a little system that allowed me to write positive messages in the morning, put it into a document and the system would just take one out of the documents and send it to him every day. So yeah, they were still my messages. They were just being more automated sending to him. Well, that kind of snowballed into more people wanting to receive the messages. And I think at some point in time, I had 10, 15 people getting the messages and I didn't think anything else of it. thought this is kind of cool. People are reading my positive messages. So it's great. Well, one day I was in a coffee shop and someone behind me overheard me talking about it to the person who I knew is at the coffee shop. And they said, I get your messages too. And I had no idea that anyone else was getting them. And so I went and looked and there was about 300 people in the database who were receiving the messages. Yeah. So I was a little bit taken back and realized, I should probably do more with this because right now they're just my positive messages I've kind of made up. And not that I'm an expert, but I think they were good messages. So ultimately I reached out to my network of connections and learned that I had a connection with a doctor of psychology at Duke University. He was able to spend a lot of time on the phone with me, teaching me all about positive psychology, teaching me all about his studies. He had seven or eight years worth of studies he had done at that point around positive psychology and things that help people and really black and white data about how they help people. And so I started building out what's now Take Two Minutes. And that was probably in 2017, 2018, I started building Take Two Minutes.
 
Dr. Cam (03:33.034)
That is amazing and it's so great to have used technology for good. There's a lot of things we can do with good. So I love this and having those positive messages. We know the impact when you get them on a regular basis can rewire the brain. So you're helping your teenager rewire their brain to be more positive, which is phenomenal. And now we are talking about tools that parents can have. And this that itself is a great one. 
right, just sending those messages. But I have a lot of kids, especially once school starts, that really struggle to manage their emotions, that get very anxious about things, and parents want to help them and they don't know how. And so I'd love to provide some tools for them on what can they do when they see that their teen is struggling, what can they help them with.
 
Marc S Fussell (04:28.458)
Right. So I think there's a lot of answers to that question. And I'm going to start with, there is no one solution for everybody, right? And let's just start there. And I think that's an obvious statement, but not everyone recognizes that. The goal is to keep trying until you find something that works for the individual. Take two minutes is one of the many things you can try. Obviously, I'm gonna talk about take two minutes because it's my, as you said, my passion, what I know a lot about, but ultimately I know about positive psychology and there are a lot of tools out there and you have to find the one that works the best for your children. So what take two minutes can offer is a few things. We have a few different activities I'm gonna talk about that could help children.
 
Also, you mentioned the positive messages. We still have positive messages. They have grown. So we actually have an entire subset of positive messages now that are meant for middle school and high school kids. were created, the little subset, when I say little, it's 400 messages. They were created by teachers, school counselors, and also regular counselors and therapists that are really more targeted at that younger age. They're shorter messages. They're not quite as in depth with some of the messages. And they were written by people who work with kids to help kids. So there's a whole subset of positive messages just for younger audience, we'll say. On and above that, within Take Two Minutes, a parent can sign up for Take Two Minutes and buy a license for their child or children or entire family.
 
And a neat feature we have is the ability for the parent to see what activities the children are doing. So can actually get a report showing if they have one or more than one kid, each child and what things they're doing. And they can look at the report on a day basis or a week basis or whatever. many of the activities we have allows the recipient to check in, like how are you feeling right now? And so as if a child does check in their mood,
 
A parent can see their mood even different times throughout the day, how they're feeling if they have checked in multiple times. That's something that's really good. And from advice and input from therapists and counselors, the parents cannot read the child's personal data. So if the child is making journal entries, which is good, the parents don't have access to read those. The parents can go to the child and go, I'm seeing you're using these tools. I'm really happy. Anything you want to talk about, any of your entries you want to talk about, they can try to have that conversation but they don't have direct access to see the entries. It is still a private entry for the child. So going back to things that help, you mentioned rewiring the brain. think on and above just receiving positive messages, biggest, one of the largest things anyone can do to help rewire their brain is recognizing gratitude. It's really difficult to be in a negative spot and recognize gratitude at the same time. I don't know if it's even possible, honestly. So the recognition of gratitude or what is commonly called a gratitude journal is something that really anyone who's struggling should get in the habit of trying to do. Now within take two minutes, I'm going to ask, let you ask questions. But one more thing I want to add here with regards to gratitude journaling. I learned over the years that a lot of people struggle with gratitude journaling. If you're in a bad place, if you're depressed, if you're a child who's dealing with problems,
 
And a parent or anyone says, Hey, I want you to start gratitude journaling. Even if you want to, even if you sit down and try, you may sit there and think, I have nothing to be grateful for. You move on. And so what I have developed also, in addition to a gratitude journal is what I call the gratitude challenge. The gratitude challenge came from all this learning I've done about people who struggle with thinking of things they're grateful for. The gratitude challenge every day will send you a prompt of something for which you should be grateful. And it will ask you to write a statement on why you are grateful for that. What this does talking about rewiring the brain is it starts allowing someone to recognize things in their daily life for which they should be grateful. As they start recognizing those things, they will actually recognize more gratitude. After a short amount of time, I found in my studies, someone only needs about 10 to 14 days of gratitude challenges until they start just recognizing gratitude around them automatically.
 
So the gratitude challenge is a fun exercise that I encourage people who are struggling to take a chance with. And ideally, after a 14, 20 day gratitude challenge, you can then just smoothly transition into a gratitude journaling exercise.
 
Dr. Cam (08:58.422)
That's fantastic. are some of the things on there that just give us some examples of the things that you say we should be grateful for that kind of prompts the kids?
 
Marc S Fussell (09:09.193)
Right. So the one I use the same example quite often, and it is the sun provides heat and light to our planet. Think of a reason why you like the sun. And so it, it, that's, it's just a very simple topic. gives them one thing to think about and one thing to write a gratitude statement on. There's about 180 different prompts right now. And the goal of all those prompts is ideally not to trigger anyone, not to, try to touch on a topic that someone can't relate to, so they try to be all topics everybody can relate to. And of course, that's a tough thing to do. But yeah, right. But we've done our best to make sure that they all fit in that range. And so there's 180 of them. And ideally, if you do a gratitude challenge, system lets you, by default, it'll do seven days. But you can say, want to do a 20 day, a 15 day, whatever you want to do. And it'll continue it for that amount of time.
 
Dr. Cam (10:03.012)
I love that and I think when you've got something, an outside source that kind of plays into their technology, they might be more open to do it or you can do it as a family and just say, hey, let's figure out and if we all can come up with stuff, which is a great way to connect too. So we've got the gratitude, which yes, gratitude is a phenomenal way to rewire the brain. I always encourage parents to do this about their teens is find a daily, at least three things they're grateful for about their teen, which can start very difficult, but it changes that dynamic too. So I love the gratitude. What about when our teen is in a moment and they're stressing out and anxious and they want help, but they're also resistant to help. What are some very powerful tools that we can help our teens use in order to be able to get them through that?
 
Marc S Fussell (10:57.363)
Thankfully, because of a couple of larger companies, meditation is becoming a little more popular in today's age, or at least more people are aware of the idea of meditation. Take Two Minutes has hundreds and hundreds of meditations built into it, but specifically, I have a small library of meditations that are really focused on calming someone down from anxiety. And so, we haven't touched on this yet. Take Two Minutes is largely a text -based app. And so, it's an app. It has a website. The website this was called a mobile first design. So it's really designed for the mobile phone. You can do everything from the website. However, you can also do everything via just texting. a lot of, especially a lot of people love that because the fact that you always have your phone in your hand, you respond to text messages. And so you can, if you have a moment of anxiety, instead of trying to go to the website or find the app on your phone, just go to your text messages and text a message back to the service saying, I have anxiety it's gonna immediately send you back two exercises. It's immediately send you back a grounding exercise and a meditation that's focused on anxiety. You can use either of them, but it sends that back within seconds usually. And you can hit the meditation, sit down and follow along and ideally calm yourself down from that moment. The meditations that are in the anxiety focused meditations, again, there's about 20 and the whole purpose of those is to calm you down. And some of them are some breathing exercises. Some are just visualizations you follow along, but they really ideally help someone calm down from that panic attack or stressful moment.
 
Dr. Cam (12:32.416)
Yeah, and I think when you've got that presented to you, because a lot of times when parents present it, it just adds to the anxiety because kids feel a little pressured going, okay, mom's telling me that I need to breathe and I'm not feeling like breathing and now I feel pressured to breathe because mom wants me to and it's like, it kind of builds it up. So having something that generates it for you through their type of communication is really nice and having that. we've got gratitude. We do, we've got the grounding exercise, right? And is that the five, four, three, two.
 
Marc S Fussell (13:00.891)
Yes, yes. It is, it's the one, five things you see around you, four things you, I think here, three things you smell, yeah. I think it's a great exercise. And I'm sure you know this, you've probably talked about it, it brings someone into the present, it brings someone into their surroundings and makes you focus on things around you. And again, Dr. Cam, I'm sure you know this, but anxiety is worrying about the future. So if you're worried about something upcoming or possibilities of something, if you can bring yourself into your surroundings and where you're at right now, that helps alleviate that anxiety.
 
Dr. Cam (13:37.312)
It really does and it gets you out of the head, out of your head. always liken it to, you you're riding your bike and a twig gets in there and you just go, boom, it just stops the wheels, right? It's kind of like that where it just stops that hamster wheel in your brain. The grounding exercise I use with my own daughter quite a lot to the point now where she just looks at me and she goes, okay, mom, let's start, you know, when she's starting to feel, because by the time you're done with it, you have stopped it enough to be able to regain even if you're still stressed out, you at least aren't stuck in that like hyperventilation, Like freaking out thing. So doing that, a lot of kids resist breathing. How do we get our kids on board? Because breathing is probably the number one best way to calm ourselves down. But it gets a lot of eye rolls. People are like, my God, breathing.
 
So how do we talk about breathing to our teens in a way that doesn't sound all woo woo and they can buy into it?
 
Marc S Fussell (14:42.724)
So before we get to breathing back to the grounding exercise, I want to add that a lot of people to it, to make this exercise more impactful for anybody. have to. So what I found is a few of the numbers, especially when you start talking about things you smell and things you hear, you have to really focus on those. And those are the key ones, right? It's really easy. It's easy to look around and go, I see a clock, I see a speaker, I see a picture, I see, and that's almost topical, right? It's so easy to see things quickly. 
I ideally am for most people at least. hearing, hearing is one of those things where depending on where you're at, you may have to focus more, which is good. The point of that exercise is to focus a little bit because that is what's going to bring yourself into the present moment. So hearing or listening, you may have to start really trying to hone in on what you hear. And maybe it's a car out in the distance or a train or wrestling of Lee's, that
Focus is what helps that exercise be impactful. If you make it very topical and just make it very, hear this, I hear that. Well then move on to smell because smells even more difficult quite often, right?
 
Dr. Cam (15:44.35)
can ever get smell. It's two things you smell. Let's go, it's five things you see, four things you can feel like against your body, not emotions. Three things you hear, two things you can smell and one thing you taste. So you're going through all the different senses. And when we get to smell, I struggle to smell more than one thing. Like that's a tough thing for us to do, I think.
 
Marc S Fussell (15:51.685)
But the beauty of that is if you do try hard, that is what's helping that exercise work for you. Because if you just pass it up, that's not going to be as impactful as really trying. And the feel one is one I like because you got to really start thinking about sitting in a seat. I feel my sit bone against the seat. I feel the arm against my elbow over here. Right. So you got to kind of focus on those things. And that focus is what makes that really, really impactful. So I wanted to touch on that real quickly before we got to breathing. But for breathing, there's a couple of things on breathing also.
 
In addition to the meditations that are focused on helping with anxiety, we have another library of breathing exercises. So there are many breathing techniques, as you are probably aware. There's not just a breathing technique. So a couple of things on breathing is I recommend people to try, you know, quite a few of them out of the library. think my breathing exercise library has 18 different breathing exercises. So keep trying different ones until you find one you like. Once you find one you like, you can add it to your library so you can get back to it quickly so you can reuse it. However, with breathing, the goal is to recognize your breath. If you calm down from it, if you're calming down from anxiety, it's not so much just your awareness, yeah, I'm breathing. It's deep, purposeful breaths and purposeful exhales. I find for me, what works the best is inhaling through the nose, exhaling through the mouth. Everyone's a little bit different. Every breathe exercise is a little bit different, but you make very purposeful inhales that are really deep and even audible if need be. then you can make, you know, let out a big as you're exhaling and repeat that. Then focus on feeling again feet. We're talking about feels, right? So feeling the air go into your nostrils, feeling the air go down, feeling your stomach expand on the breath. So feeling those things that again brings you back into the present moment because you're really focusing on something that's happening right now and around you.
 
Dr. Cam (18:01.544)
Yeah, I think the key with this and across all of these is finding that technique that gets you out of your head and into just the tangibles and the truth, right? Because a lot of where anxiety comes from, it's like the story we're building and building and building, and there's rarely any truth to it. You know, it's kind of this buildup thing. And so now we're getting to something really true and real and here, which all of those things kind of ground us. 
 
I like that with an app you can just get it, right? So you don't have to remember it. Because I think that's one of the challenges too. And if you don't have the app, one of the things to remember is these are things you have to practice when you're calm because your brain is not going to remember what to do when you're in fight or flight. It's already gone, right? So this is about finding that exercise and having it become automated beforehand. And even if you have the app, having that turning to the app has to be automated because you're not going to think of that either, right? Do you find that as a challenge or what are your recommendations for that?
 
Marc S Fussell (19:09.4)
I think what you said is spot on because you do want to get accustomed to some of those exercises and not just try them when you're in that fight or flight or really panic mode. Cause it's not going to be as obvious to you at that point. So you have to almost play with the app some first. So you're familiar with how to get to things. And again, I've tried to make it really, really easy. You you mentioned the word app since it is a mobile designed website or it's called a progressive web app. You can put a link right on your note desktop or home screen of your phone. It's really easy to do. You can put a link right there so you can get to it almost immediately. also, again, as I mentioned, we've made it where it's text friendly also, so you can text messages to it get responses. So the goal is to make it as easily accessible as possible. But with that said, some practice ahead of time or playing ahead of time so you become familiar with it and are aware it's there as a tool for you helps you when you do need it.
 
Dr. Cam (20:01.844)
Yeah, and I think, and I'm thinking in my head too, because a lot of times the kids that I talk to when they're going through anxiety don't actually have access to their phone because the phone has been removed from them because, and that's some of the reason why they are experiencing anxiety is because the phone has been taken and that's kind of their lifeline. So I think it's really important that if you are removing the phone to consider that, that that might be a lifeline. So you need to first decide what that is. And if you are, to have some of these other tools in place and taught and prepared and ready for them if they need to figure it out and access themselves, correct?
 
Marc S Fussell (20:39.895)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's an interesting, almost like rabbit hole we could talk about. I don't want to talk about it too much, but you know, removing the phone, I get why it's done. don't want, we, in our minds, especially older generations look at the devices as a crutch, right? We didn't have them when we were kids, why they needed it. But these days they're kind of like just a part of life. So removing them, even though it may seem obvious to us that we, cause we didn't need them as a kid a lot of children rely upon those things. That is, like you said, their lifeline. It's almost like their security blanket sometimes. It's just what they're accustomed to having. so monitoring what they're doing on them is definitely important, right? You don't want them doing anything bad or anything they shouldn't be doing. And I'm not going to tell anyone, don't remove their children's phones. Obviously it's your child, do what you want to do. But I think that definitely can add some anxiety because in their minds, it's something they're just accustomed to having quite often.
 
Dr. Cam (21:33.548)
Yeah. And I think that it is, it's a decision that if that is what you're going to do, that's fine and that's your decision, but making sure that you're replacing that with something else because we tend to just take it and not replace it with anything. And so that leaves your child just struggling, right? Rather than saying, okay, I know this is a security blanket and what do you use it for? Let's find something else. That's why too, we want to make sure we've got a lot of these tools and we've been walking through. And you said at the beginning, and I want to reiterate this, this is about finding what works for your team. So you may go through a lot of different things and your team is just going to be like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. That is fine. Keep finding. Don't give up or something. Right? So we've got, and you're right, breathing, there's a ton of different things.
 
I like the grounding exercise just because it feels more like a game a little bit than Zen meditations, gratitude. What are we missing?
 
Marc S Fussell (22:39.156)
Again, just when you say gratitude, don't forget the gratitude challenge. That's huge. Now earlier, though, you mentioned you touched on with your child. Sometimes you think of three, three things, three good things you liked. So the three good things exercise is an actual exercise in positive psychology that is huge. And some people don't fully understand how it's supposed to work. So I'm to touch on that real quickly. Gratitude journaling. Most of the time, I mean, the time what I've heard time and time again is best in the early day hours. So sometime in the morning, wake up, try to write a gratitude statement, write two if you can. That is different from three good things. Three good things ideally is an exercise that is supposed to be done in the evening, so prior to bed. And you're supposed to reflect on the day and think of three good things that happened that day to you. The purpose of this is it puts your mind into a positive state prior to going to bed many people, even children, us, so many people have stressful days, right? And at the end of the day, sometimes you're exhausted. Maybe it was a bad day. Maybe you had problems. and so you're going to bed quite often, maybe in a negative mood, even though you don't recognize this negative mood, doing three good things in the evening makes you reflect on the day and makes you think about good things that happen. And sometimes it's a struggle. Some days you're like, I can't think of anything, but it's little things, right?
 
someone held the door for you. That was very nice of them. Someone said, thank you. didn't know where you talk to. Think of little things. It doesn't have to be a monumental change, but three good things. Go to sleep. Your subconscious then works on that positivity. And this is what's creating new routes in your head, neural pathways for positivity. You wake up with a little bit more positivity. The studies have shown, and there's been a lot of studies on three good things, that if you do that for just
 
15 days only 15 days It will have a lasting effect on your mental well -being for four months meaning that those 15 days of Thinking of three good things that happened to you prior to going to bed Because of again your subconscious and how it uses that information you will have More positivity in your life for the next up to the next four months
 
Dr. Cam (24:57.824)
This is such an amazing thing to do as a family again, right? If you're to that point, even around dinner table, it's like, are three things that were great today? Share them with us. Because when we, the other thing is when we either write them down or vocalize it, it's much more prominent than if we just think it, right? So putting that out there makes it a lot more powerful. And I also want to highlight what you said too, that we often think it has to be this big major thing, right?
 
And it can be the smallest thing. One of the things I do with teens is I say, just look around the room and pick one thing, just any random thing there, and tell me what are you grateful for about that? Just that, that one thing. So it can be so completely simple. The whole point is it's making your brain think of the positive and not stuck in that negative. Why, and I know positive psychology gets into this a lot, why are we kind of geared towards going to the negative. Why is that so easy to do and the positive we have to be so intentional about?
 
Marc S Fussell (26:03.605)
There's a lot of discussion around that. And I think it falls back to in our, you know, centuries and centuries ago, we had to be aware of the negatives because there could be a bear after us or a saber tooth tiger. had to be aware of our surroundings because we needed to protect ourselves. We primarily live in a day and age now where generally we're pretty protected. You know, you're in a house, you have a lot of securities, but that You know, it goes, it's very similar to the reason why we are all predisposition to really want sugar, want salt and what fat, right? It's things to keep our survival going. and that negativity is things to keep our survival going. However, everything plays on that, you know, news plays on that negativity to, to incite you, to get you to watch more news or be concerned. Social media is really bad about trying to show you the negatives to get you engaged with the conversation. I think, at one point in time, I read a whole article about Facebook. use their algorithms, took anything negative and put it up top to hopefully engage people to try to respond more. then you're just being negativities being dumped on you and you're playing up on that. And it makes you more negative. Barbara Fredrickson said the negativity screams at us, whereas the positivity only whispers. And I think I probably didn't get that quote exactly right. But the premise is accurate that you have to look for the positivity sometimes. But what happens is, and you talked about changing again, your brains pathways, it's really it's called priming. So once you get accustomed to recognizing positive things, recognizing gratitude, once you start doing it, once you get in the habit of doing it, your brain will just automatically start doing it more and more. And the beauty of it is, and I tell people this all the time, we're not looking for fake positivity, we're not looking for fake happiness, we're not trying to say, you're always happy. The goal is that life's going to have ebbs and flows. Once you have a good amount of gratitude and you recognize gratitude around you and you're recognizing positivity through positive psychology. When bad things happen, you're able to rebound more quickly because bad things are still going to happen. You're going to have problems in life. You're going to have unfortunate deaths. You're going to have grievance. You're going to have problems in life all the time. The idea behind positive psychology, the idea behind recognizing positivity is being able to rebound from those things often or more quickly. So I know myself, I have Yeah, as we all do, I don't want this isn't a, you feel sorry for marketing, but I have a lot going on, right? I'm a CIO. I take care of, take two minutes. have kids. have, you know, helping people and every day there are challenges and there are times where there's grievances. I can usually, since I've been practicing positive psychology for years now, I can recognize when I'm in a bad state, I can recognize when I'm in a negative state, right? And when I recognize that because I'm able to recognize it doesn't mean I'm able to instantly fix it. can't just flip a switch and go, I'm happy again. But because I recognize it, I do a better job, I believe, of not reflecting that negativity on other people. I do a better job of trying to maybe avoid people who I care about just so I don't be more negative around them until I'm able to get over it. And I can use things I know to get myself into a better positive state in a shorter amount of time. you know, everyone's going be different with what that timeframe is. If it's a death in the family, it might take you weeks to get over and that's okay. Nothing's wrong with that. But the goal of a positive psychology is you do recognize it and you're able to dig yourself out of the hole.
 
Dr. Cam (29:25.44)
I’m glad you brought that up because I think there is this false assumption or belief about positive psychology that it's just everything's shiny and pretty and I'm going to just ignore reality. But what I see a lot and again, I see this with my teens a lot is that we create a reality that's far more negative and they have these they go to the end create stories that are super, super negative and see that as the reality.
 
And so I'll make them do like, okay, come up with a opposing story that is so beyond crazy positive. That's just as true. That feels really weird to you and uncomfortable, but it is just as true as this really, really negative one. Let's get somewhere in the middle so that we're, because how our brain thinks is how we interact with the world. So we can create really negative interactions and the same person can experience the exact same thing and not have the negative impact. So I think it's really important that this is, and like you said, and I just want to expand on that because I think that is a very big misconception people have. I also want to share that yesterday was the exact day that I had where I had to tell my daughter, she came down and I said, I'm not in a good mood today, just to let you know.
 
Marc S Fussell (30:40.542)
it is.
 
Dr. Cam (30:50.964)
And she sends me a text later and she goes, mom, have to tell you this, but I didn't want to tell you in the morning because she told me you were in a bad mood. But I was just like, I'm just going let you know now. I'm not in a good place. I'm trying. I'm going to get out of it. But right now I'm just not there. And it helped because now we weren't triggering one another.
 
Marc S Fussell (31:11.325)
Right. Yeah. And that's what you said. We're all going to have bad days. No matter what you do, there's going to be bad days. And you just got to learn that, recognize that. It's not all rainbows and butterflies, right? Life has problems.
 
Dr. Cam (31:15.356)
Yeah, absolutely. I love all of these. think this is about, and we'll put the link and all the information about the app in there, because I think that is a great tool, especially if you have a teen and if you do have a teen that is resistant to your suggestions and advice, you are not alone. In fact, you probably have more people that are like that than have kids that will listen. But if you have that, this is a great tool. Or finding somebody else that can teach them those, Not getting upset that they won't listen to you, but finding a way for them to access those tools is great.
 
Marc S Fussell (32:01.686)
Yes, and I think we set up a coupon code for you as well that's in your listeners can use Correct. Yep
 
Dr. Cam (32:06.758)
You did. It's just Dr. Cam. So put in Dr. Cam and you can get a discount. That's fantastic. Thank you for doing that. I love that. So what is one thing you want people to walk away with from this episode?
 
Marc S Fussell (32:19.709)
I think it's patience and kindness. think it's important for people, especially parents. You were kids once too. I was a kid once too. Kids can be frustrating. I was probably challenging when I was a child. I think just have some patience, have kindness, show love always, and that will go a long way to making them feel confident with talking to you. think love is an important part of it as well, letting them know that they are loved, that you care about them if they're going through a difficult time trying to help them in a loving way is I think they're in for
 
Dr. Cam (32:52.832)
That is so key. It's easy to love them when they're being compliant and good. It is very difficult sometimes to not that we don't love them, but to show that love when they're being difficult and that's when they need us the most. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us. I really, really appreciate it.
 
Marc S Fussell (33:01.027)
That was a great conversation. I appreciate being here. Thank you for having me again.
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast offers expert advice, real-world insights, and practical parenting strategies to help you navigate the challenges of raising teens. Dr. Cam, an adolescent psychologist, helps parents build strong relationships with their teens while supporting their emotional growth. Each episode provides actionable tips and tools to improve communication, handle teen behavior, and thrive together as a family. #ParentingTeens #MentalHealth #Teens #PositivePsychology #TakeTwoMinutes #DrCamCaswell

Prevent Teen Drinking and Impaired Driving: Expert Tips from MADD CEO to Keep Your Teen Safe

Dr. Cam Caswell sits down with Stacey D. Stewart, CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), to discuss the critical issue of underage drinking and impaired driving. Stacey highlights the ongoing dangers of these issues and the devastating impact they can have on families. She emphasizes that parents play a key role in prevention through open, ongoing conversations with their teens. Stacey encourages parents to provide resources and information to help their children make informed decisions and understand the consequences of alcohol and substance use. Modeling responsible behavior and seeking help if a child struggles with substance use is also key.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
The lasting dangers of underage drinking and impaired driving, and how parents can help prevent them.
Why ongoing, open communication with teens is crucial for prevention.
Practical resources and tips for parents to help their teens make informed choices about alcohol and substance use.
How parents can model responsible behavior to reinforce the importance of safe choices.
The importance of addressing mental health concerns and seeking help when necessary.
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Underage drinking and impaired driving remain serious issues with severe consequences.
Parents can prevent these dangers by maintaining open communication with their teens and providing educational resources.
Modeling responsible behavior is essential for guiding teens toward making better decisions.
Early conversations about alcohol and substance use should begin as early as elementary school.
If a teen is struggling with substance use, parents should seek support and resources immediately.
 
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RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
MADD's digital Power of Parents handbook
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and the Importance of Prevention
03:39 The Disconnect Between Knowledge and Action
06:34 Starting the Conversation Early
11:31 Continuing the Conversation and Reinforcing the Dangers
18:39 Creating a Plan for Safe Transportation
26:27 Modeling Responsible Behavior and Addressing Mental Health
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Stacey D. Stewart
Website: MADD Website
Instagram: @MADDNational
Facebook: MADD Official Facebook
LinkedIn: Stacey D. Stewart LinkedIn
X (Twitter): @MADDOnline
YouTube: MADD YouTube Channel
TikTok: @MADDNational
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT  
Dr. Cam (00:01.026)
The thought of your teen making a life -altering mistake because of alcohol is terrifying. We know that underage drinking can lead to devastating consequences, from impaired driving accidents to the dangerous combination of alcohol with other drugs. But here's the thing, these tragedies are entirely preventable. To help us navigate these tough topics, I am joined by Stacey D. Stewart, CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving or MADD. Stacey is going to share how we as parents can address these fears take action and keep our teens safe from the dangers of drinking and driving. Stacey, welcome to the show.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (00:37.837)
Thank for having me.
 
Dr. Cam (00:39.182)
Absolutely, Kaso. I always love starting with a backstory. So what inspired you to get involved with MAD?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (00:47.544)
You know, my whole career has kind of been defined by leading and working in organizations that are doing good in society and doing good for others. It's my career has gone everywhere from addressing affordable housing and homelessness to looking at the issues of public education to public health and maternal and infant health and this opportunity came up to come to MAD and I just thought it was an amazing opportunity. The organization has, you know, an incredible legacy, has done really phenomenal things and is on a journey to continue to address the issue of Indian Peer Driving. And I just jumped on the opportunity to come once it came my way and I've been excited to be a part of the organization ever since.
 
Dr. Cam (01:35.23)
I love that. Thank you for everything you're doing. That's amazing. Making some serious change in the world. That's incredible. Tell me a little bit about what is the goal of MAD right now? Like what are your main things that you're trying to accomplish?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (01:51.034)
So the main goal is to end impaired driving, meaning ending drunk and drug driving. And unfortunately for a lot of people, I think maybe because of some of the success that Matt has had over almost 45 years, a lot of people think that that issue has gone away or we've dealt with it. Some people say, well, we have ride share, we have Uber and ride share alternatives. So why would anyone get behind a wheel and drive? And unfortunately it still happens. In fact, based on the latest statistics,
 
Over 13 ,000 people died as a result of impaired driving crashes. And about every, almost every 90 seconds, someone is either being injured or killed in an impaired driving crash. And so we still have a major issue for, in this country. And in fact, even though we have seen a 50 % decline in fatalities from the beginning of MADS getting started until just before the...
 
Stacey D. Stewart (02:49.69)
pandemic, during the pandemic, we saw an upswing. So from 2019 to 2022, we saw an increase in fatalities of over 30%. So we began going in the wrong direction. And that's why, Mad, we're, you know, very, very focused on doubling down to make sure that we build awareness around the dangers of, of drinking and, using substances behind the wheel. We also are making sure that young people understand the dangers of underage drinking because we know that underage drinking and substance use can lead to a greater chance of becoming involved in an impaired driving crash. So these are just really important issues that we have to continue to focus on and we can't let up the focus because, you know, frankly, if we do, more people die or get injured and none of us wants that.
 
Dr. Cam (03:39.638)
Yeah, I think as parents, we're very well aware of this, right? And when our kids are going out and they're even before they're driving and their friends are driving, we're already terrified enough, right? I think our kids also know, but there's a disconnect between what they know and what they do. And there's also a disconnect of what we know and what our kids will hear from us, right? And what they believe from us.
 
So I think that's the biggest thing as parents that we're worried about is how do we convey the severity of it without terrifying them, but also how do we do it in a way where we're teaching them to make good decisions, even when there's peer pressure and they don't want to be the weird person that says, I'm not going to take the ride or no, I'm not drinking. I throw a lot at you because there's a lot.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (04:31.246)
Right. No, that's it. Yeah, no, no, no. It's but you're you're asking all the right questions and touching all the right issues. And I think, you know, Ed Madd, one of the things that we do is provide a lot of information and resources to parents so that parents know how to talk to their kids around the dangers of underage drinking and substance use and then what that can mean in terms of becoming involved in an impaired driving crash. I think it's really important to level set, you know, about There are about 4 ,300 deaths attributed each year to underage drinking in this country. And when you look at, in fact, based on data as of 2021, about 27 % of drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 were killed in traffic crashes and had alcohol present in their system. And so it's really important to understand that these are really serious issues and that if we don't talk to our kids, as soon as we're ready to have that conversation and they're ready to have the conversation, which can be as early as even elementary school, middle school, but certainly by high school, we could be doing our kids a disservice because if they're not engaged in a very positive conversation with their parents, who we know parents are the most influential adults in a kid's life, they may being influenced by some of the wrong things to your point around peer pressure becomes very intense the older that young people get certainly through high school, middle school and high school and into college. so creating those healthy habits is something that's really important. And that's why we created the Power Parents Handbook which is available at mad .org our website. It's available to give parents those tools that they need to know how to talk to kids in healthy and positive ways so that kids understand how to make good decisions and how to make sure that they stay as safe as possible and keep others safe as well.
 
Dr. Cam (06:34.502)
Yeah, I looked through that. It's beautifully done too. It's really, really cool resource. So I will put the link there and I encourage parents to look at that. Let's pull out a few things. Let's say we've got a tween now, right? So they're not driving yet. Hopefully, well, chances are now they might be starting to be introduced to alcohol. How do we start that conversation at that age? What are some things parents can say or do to really build so that we can build upon that. I'll take it older.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (07:06.426)
So I think one of the things that the Hamburg tribes have point out is that it's not even what we say, it's also how we say it. So there are certain kinds of parenting styles and approaches that tend to get young people listening and hearing the message that we have to convey, right? You know, some parents, and this is no judgment on parents at all, because we're all just human beings and we're all just trying to do our best, right?
But sometimes that more authoritarian style of like, do what I say and sort of pound the message into the kid and hope they, you know, just kind of seeps into their brain or gets pounded into the brain may work for some kids, but for a lot of kids, it's not proven to be always effective. Or the kind of laissez faire, you know, they'll get it. it'll be fine. And trying to taking it for granted that things will just be okay and I don't really need to be proactive is also probably not the right approach. So the right approach is, you know, I mean, think every parent kind of knows when their kid might be coming into situations where they might be introduced to alcohol or substances. Certainly by middle school and high school, it's really important to kind of sit down with your kids and with a very positive approach, you know, really in a way that's assuming that you trust your young people to make good judgments. Are you know, smart, are growing, you know, young people and want to be independent at the same time. It's really important for parents to understand there is a role for you to be able to say, to help young people understand that substances and alcohol is a substance can be dangerous and to explain how those things can be dangerous, how those things can impair one's judgment, how they can impair your response time and how It's okay when a lot of other kids are doing certain activities. It's really okay to make a choice to say not or to call for help or to reach out for help when you feel like you're in a situation where you may not be able to, you know, get home safely or, or you may be forced to make a decision that you don't want to. It's keeping the communication lines open, making sure that kids and young people know it's really okay to come to the parent, even if you think you've made a mistake.
 
Even if you think that you're doing something that could be dangerous down the road never hesitating to bring that forward so making sure that those lines of communication are always open I always am amazed at how parents sometimes Will make the decision well Mike I have a bunch of kids over I'm okay if they all drink when I'm here because I'm looking out over them But I just don't want kids going out and drinking well if kids are at your house, then someone else's kid is out drinking at your house. And, you know, the issue for a lot of young people is once they leave the house and they're involved, engaged in some behavior that could be very dangerous for them, you know, how do we make sure that they get home safely? And even though we know that kids are not supposed to be drinking and using substances under the age of 21, they still do. And it still happens It's our responsibility as parents to make sure that not only our kids, but other people's kids are safe too. And we have that responsibility to ourselves and to others.
 
Dr. Cam (10:33.024)
That is so true and it's such a good point that we're like, well, we're keeping them safe, but you're right. I'm not trusting somebody else to keep my kids safe, so I don't want, they don't need to trust me either. And I think it sends a mixed message too going, it's okay to drink now, but not here. And so that's confusing. let's say we've got, and I see this a lot in my practice. We've got kids that are using substances, they're either drinking or they're smoking. They are doing their very best to hide it from their parents because they know their parents don't want them to and their parents have told them not to do it, but it doesn't change them. It doesn't make them not do it, right? In fact, it just makes them very sneaky about doing it. And so then they make choices. So what do we do if we're in this situation and we find out that our child has been hiding that they've been drinking or doing substances? How do we respond to that when they clearly don't have trust in us enough to tell us?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (11:31.908)
Yeah, well, you know, those are tough and those happen all the time. And those are situations that so many of us have found ourselves in where we have to confront a young person about their behavior. you know, I think this is one of the things that's really important is this conversation isn't just a one time thing. It's something that should be done, you know, continuously and continuously using opportunities to engage in those conversations. You know, sometimes it's helpful. you know, if you are aware that your young person might be using substances or may be involved in some behavior, it's just to go back to those reminders of what we talked about and how this could be dangerous and just continuing to reinforce those messages. Continuing to reinforce that this isn't about punishment necessarily, although sometimes that may be appropriate given the situation and that's for every parent to decide how they want to do that.
 
But I do think it's really important to make sure that young people don't feel like there's some sort of punitive consequence necessarily if they just have made a mistake. However, at the same time, they do need to understand that even one mistake can lead to a life altering consequence, either for them or for someone else. So there's a real balance between, look, I understand you may make a mistake here, something may have happened, but please bring them back to
 
Remember what your options are remember that you don't have to do this remember that and this is another important point is that I think it's really important to understand that some kids are using substances or alcohol because of You know peer pressure things like that. Some kids are really dealing with Actual legitimate mental health issues and a lot of young people are looking for ways to cope with those things and I think it's really important to remind parents that If your kid is involved in using substance for whatever reason, make sure that you're getting them other kinds of help that they may need. You know, that it's really okay to go to a therapist to talk things out or to have a coach. You know, we just introduced a program called Mad Sports because not only are parents really influential in young people's lives, but there are other adults that really young people look up to. And it may be engaging those other adults in that kid's life who you know will be influential, a teacher, a principal you know, someone that a young person, you know, respects and really engages them and asks them for help. Some parents maybe feel uncomfortable asking for help or asking for assistance, but as your kid gets older, your young person gets older, you know, they are looking at other adults in their life. They are looking, they do have mentors. They are other people that they really look up to. And it's really important. It's, you know, there's this phrase, it takes a village. It's really important to engage all those trusted, you know, could be a member of the clergy, you know, it just depends could be an older family member even, that an aunt or an uncle or a cousin who can sit them down and talk to them and get to them in ways that maybe as a parent you can't. And that's really okay. Use all your resources. those would be just some of the things. But I do think continuing the conversation over time and bringing them back to remember some of these situations, making sure you're meeting your young person where they are, right, is really important.
Dr. Cam (14:48.792)
That is key. And while you're talking, I'm kind of like developing this plan or idea in my head that I want to run by you to see if this would work. Cause I want to give parents something really tangible here. So from what I'm hearing, if we're catching and we find out our kids are drinking, probably the not great way to address it is to like get harder, batten down the hatches restrict them from everything and just really get into that authoritarian, you can't do this mode. Because when we do this, we're not addressing why they're doing it and we're disconnecting from them even more, which means our influence is deteriorating even more. Instead, what I'm hearing is, let's go find somebody that they already trust, a coach, a teacher, a mentor, and talk to them and say, hey, I've heard this, is there any, you know, can you have a conversation with them? Then in the meantime, we step back and we start building our connection with them rather than breaking it more. I think with fear, we get this idea that we've got to do something right now. But when we get in that mindset, we make it worse. Do you agree with that?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (15:55.77)
I would definitely say even if you find other adults, again, our research shows that it's still parents who are the most influential. So it is a both and to your point. I think it's the parents really sitting down with kids and trying to, you know, build on that ability to have that open conversation. You know, some parents have different ways of doing it. Some parents talk about the, you know, the challenges they've had in life and how they you know, have confronted some of same things and how they had to deal with it or how they reached out. And to your point, and the point we're just talking about, and finding potentially other adults who can help reinforce those messages, but having that positive, open conversation that says, look, even if you're dealing with some things, there's nothing that's ever too big that you can't come to me, you can't come to somebody else, and we can get you the help you need. And just reminding people, reminding young people the consequences of all of their actions and decisions, you know. We've talked to so many young people who, you know, have regretted if they've been involved with a crash or they've injured someone or even killed someone. And they have to live with the pain of that over many, many years, not to mention the pain that that family has lost a loved one or had some loved one be injured or have some life altering, you know, outcome. What they're having to deal with, which is devastating. And so, you know, I think, again, we can't take it for granted. The other thing I would say just quickly is that I think a lot of young people do not understand, while MAD started as really primarily focused on alcohol, what we're seeing is a growing trend around what's called poly use, the combination of alcohol and substances. So with legalization of cannabis and commercialization of marijuana, It's really, really important. There are a lot of young people based on some of the surveys we've done who really take it for granted that you can be high in drive and it's okay. Some young people actually believe it helps you drive, that it makes you a better driver. And that just simply isn't true. If you're impaired in any way, whether it's due to alcohol, substances, or could even be prescription drugs, you have to be very careful about it. If you're impaired in any way, it really is important that you step back and, make sure that young people understand that if they're impaired, they should not be driving, that it's okay to leave the car where it is, take an Uber, call me, call a friend, but don't decide to do something that could result in something that's very serious.
 
Dr. Cam (18:39.31)
Stacey, what you were just saying too, I wanna highlight, because I think this is really important, is that you're finding a plan ahead of time. Because if we're expecting our teen to be in a state and then think logically about what the next safe thing to do and how to get out of that situation, they're not going to. So if you've got a plan ahead of time, rather than saying, don't do it, we're gonna say, we don't want you to do it. We're gonna be clear about that. But if you find yourself in a situation, even if you're not drinking, but your friend is, What can you do in that situation? Let's get the plan in place and let's talk about that plan over and over so it becomes really easy because our goal is to keep them safe, right? What do you think is a good plan to do set up with our team?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (19:24.558)
Obviously if your teen is going out to a party or going to friend's house, and if you can afford it and if it's available to you, taking rideshare to the destination and making a plan to, to take it back is, is always a good idea. And, know, if you feel like your teen, you know, might find themselves in situation where you think they'll be okay, but you're not quite sure, have a conversation and say, look, Just to be extra safe, why don't we go ahead and make a plan in advance? Or as a parent or adult, let me take you and pick you up now. lot of teens don't want that. They don't want their parents around anything. So ride share can be, Or make a plan to have the older sister or brother or someone who they are not uncomfortable with make that plan. think.
 
Dr. Cam (20:05.742)
I'm gonna come in and get you.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (20:20.494)
Sometimes coordinating with other parents on how maybe a group of them will make transportation plans is always really helpful. know, some teens may feel like this is a little intrusive, but I do think it's going to this place of reminding your kids, look, I care about you and I love you. And I just want to make sure you're safe. And I want to make sure that other people are safe. You know, I have had many of those conversations with my own children who are now 19 and 21. And so I've been through many years of dealing with some of these situations. And, you know, I think what I what our power parents information tries to give you is just that it's really important to make sure that you are responding to what your kids are feeling that you're listening to what your kids are experiencing. And maybe your kids will have a plan that they would like to offer of how they plan to get around safely. That's always a really good option. So that you're building their confidence and their ability to use good judgment to your point. Once they're impaired, it's really hard to make good judgments. That's for anybody, especially true for a young person. So the best thing is to not leave it to a debate or a default or an unknown. Go ahead and make a plan in advance. We have a partnership with Uber and Anheuser -Busch called Decide to Ride. It's really geared for more adults, but the theory is still the same if you're going to a football game, make a decision on how you're gonna get there and get home safely so that you're not putting yourself at risk or others. And the same is true, you know, as your kids start to, you know, go through teen years and are becoming more active socially and certainly into college as well.
 
Dr. Cam (22:06.05)
There's two points that came to mind while you were talking and this is so helpful just to hear it from somebody that's like knows all the data and knows all the facts, right? But I think the one thing is some parents will say, well, if I say, hey, here's what we're gonna do when you're drinking, I'm condoning drinking. What I've seen is that when we actually are saying that, our kids are less likely to drink because we've taken all the fun out of the sneaking behind. Teens have actually told me this.
 
It's like when my parents understand and help me through it, it's no longer that desire. It's not as fun to do. And the other one is to have them involved in the decision and the plan, because if we just dictate a plan and it doesn't address their needs, like I'm gonna be embarrassed if I do that or they're not gonna do it. But if we involve them and we address what they need, it's much more likely that they're gonna follow through.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (23:01.188)
think parents to again, I want to underscore this point because there was a recent survey that just came out showing that there is a decline in alcohol use among young people. But in some ways, it's being replaced by other things again, being replaced by substances being replaced by social media and other kinds of things that are the young people are using to deal with some of the normal stresses, anxieties, worries, fears they have in life, right. And again, I think it goes back to that point of you know, they, you know, our young people are dealing with a lot, you know, even through the pandemic, think, we kind of take it for granted the kind of, emotional and mental impact that that had on everybody, but especially on young people. And a lot of young people are still dealing with the aftermath of that. It's, it's not, it's a, it's, these are very serious issues. So I think we have to just remind, ourselves that our kids are still pretty delicate. you know, in terms of their physical development, their emotional, mental, social, emotional development, all of that is very, you know, still at a very delicate stage if they're in middle school, high school, and especially. And so it's really important to be mindful of that. The last thing I just want to say about this too is that, and a lot of parents sometimes don't want to hear this, but I think it's important to say that because parents are so influential, again, it goes back to this point of it's sometimes this,
 
Don't listen to my words, just watch what I do. And we are sometimes modeling the behavior that our kids pick up on. I was just recently with a friend of mine and stayed at our house for a few days. And she said, you know, I really regret the amount of social activity and coming home after work and the drinks and the wine and all of those things almost on a regular basis. What messages that was sending my own children. about the use of alcohol in the house. And I think we have to just be mindful. Of course, at MAD, we're never telling people not to enjoy yourself. And as an adult, you make decisions that you wanna make and you should. At the same time as parents, we have another role, which is that we influence our kids. And if you want your kids to be influenced in the best and most positive ways, not just don't be mindful just of what you say, but what you do think that becomes a very powerful message as parents of how we communicate and help our kids to be as healthy and as strong and able to make the best decisions possible as they grow older into adulthood.
 
Dr. Cam (25:42.966)
Yeah, that's incredibly powerful. I think when you're talking about how teens use substances a lot of times to deal with their mental health issues, right, to feel better, do adults. So when we're showing our kids that we turn to substances and alcohol to make us feel better, we're showing them that that's how they make themselves feel better. And I think we don't see ourselves when we do this as innately bad because we're drinking.
 
So we need to avoid seeing our kids as being bad for drinking and rather going, why are they turning towards to this as a solution? And how do we together find a more healthy, safer solution?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (26:27.876)
Right. And what's the balance, right? I mean, no one's saying that, you know, drinking, having a drink every once in a while, or is an okay, or any other legal substance may not be okay every once in a while. It's more, you know, if it's on a regular basis, if it's a regular thing in the household, what kind of message is that sending to your point? And how could that be influencing them to make similar kinds of decisions in the future? actually could be dangerous, proved to be dangerous down there.
 
Dr. Cam (27:00.268)
Yeah, it's about using it as a coping tool rather than having a healthy relationship with it, right? Okay. So, Stacey, what is one thing that you really want parents to take away from this conversation?
 
Stacey D. Stewart (27:16.726)
I think the most important thing is parents are the most influential adults in their children's life and that there is a very important role that parents play to influence the behavior, the decisions, the way that your children grow and develop. Parents think about that in a number of ways. Parents get tutors for their kids to do well in school. They involve their kids in all kinds of after -school activities because they want other kinds of ways to enrich and develop their children. The kinds of things that parents, and I'm of a generation where issues around mental health and talking about delicate issues in the household weren't things that parents did a lot of, right? So I had to bear the brunt of not having some of the benefit of some of the resources that we're offering to parents right now. But I think it is a reminder that as parents, it is important to have those what might be seen or thought of as somewhat difficult conversations. What's even more difficult is if you don't have the conversation and that leads your child to make some poor decisions in their life that could hurt them or others. That's an even tougher situation and conversation. So the most important thing is make sure that you're proactively working with your young person to listen to them, to develop that positive parenting relationship with them to make sure that you keep those open lines of communication, to make sure that you're modeling the best behavior, to make sure that you understand that drinking and drug driving is still a major issue in this country. And unfortunately, it's affecting far too many young people, some of them even before they're even legally allowed to drink or use drugs. Therefore, getting to your young person as early as possible with these healthy conversations is really important. And that's what MAD is focused on to try to prevent impaired driving in the future, now and in the future. leverage our tools at madd .org. Our parents program is an evidence -based program. It's been peer reviewed. It's been studied. It has proven to work to help kids make better decisions and keep our roads safer. So that's the most important thing.
 
Dr. Cam (29:34.284)
That is fantastic. will link again to that. And I do really encourage people to look at it as a great, great resource. And thank you guys for providing that. think that's really helpful. So Stacey, thank you so much for jumping on and sharing with us. Yeah, it's wonderful.
 
Stacey D. Stewart (29:46.404)
Thank you. it's so great to see you. Absolutely. It's great to see you. Thank you for having me.
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast provides expert advice and practical strategies for parents navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam, an adolescent psychologist, this podcast offers real-world insights to help parents strengthen their relationships with their teens and support their emotional development. Each episode provides actionable tips that make parenting easier and more rewarding. #ParentingTeens #MADD #UnderageDrinking #ImpairedDriving #PositiveParenting

3 Proven Ways to Motivate Strong-Willed Teenagers and Build Trust with Kirk Martin

If you're struggling to connect with your strong-willed teenager and every conversation feels like a tug-of-war, you're not alone. In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with parenting expert Kirk Martin, founder of CelebrateCalm.com and host of the Calm Parenting Podcast. Together, they share practical and actionable strategies to turn defiance and power struggles into calm, productive conversations. You'll learn how to motivate your strong-willed teen, build a trusting relationship, and navigate these challenging years with more peace and understanding.
Tune in to discover how changing your approach as a parent can transform your family dynamic and empower your teen to be their authentic self. Don’t miss out on these game-changing tips!
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How to Build a Close, Trusting Connection with your teen to motivate them without using control or manipulation.
Why Parents Should Focus on Changing Themselves instead of trying to change their teen's behavior.
The Power of Bonding by sharing interests with your teen and asking them to teach you something they’re passionate about.
How Releasing Parental Expectations can help your teen embrace their authentic self and take ownership of their actions.
The Importance of Normalizing Teen Challenges by understanding that their behavior is often a reaction to their environment, not an attack on you.
 
🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW?If you found this episode helpful, don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode with friends and family, and leave a rating and review to help other parents discover the support they need. Your feedback helps me continue creating episodes packed with practical tips for families just like yours! Thanks for your support! 🙏💫
🔔 Don’t forget to Follow so you never miss another episode filled with solutions that make parenting teens easier! 🙌
 
TOP 5 TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Self-Reflection Is Key – Parents should focus on changing their own responses and mindset instead of trying to change their teen’s behavior. This shift can lead to better communication and fewer power struggles.
Empathy Over Control – Building a strong relationship with your teen starts with understanding their world, not trying to control it. Listening and empathizing is more powerful than imposing rules.
Bonding Over Shared Interests – Find common ground with your teen and engage in activities they love. Asking them to teach you something is a great way to build connection and show respect for their expertise.
Release the Pressure – Let go of strict expectations about who your teen should be. Empower them by recognizing their natural gifts and talents, which fosters confidence and independence.
Mentors Are Essential – Outside mentorship can provide your teen with additional support and guidance that may be more effective than what you can offer as a parent. Encourage them to seek out these valuable relationships.
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Calm Parenting Podcast
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction: Effective Strategies for Motivating Strong-Willed Teenagers
01:22 Kirk's Backstory: How to Transform the Parent-Teen Relationship
03:12 Self-Reflection in Parenting: Why Changing Yourself Helps Your Teen
06:25 How to Build a Strong Connection with Your Teen
09:44 The Power of Listening: Acknowledging Your Teen’s Voice
12:55 How to Work with Parents to Facilitate Positive Change
17:21 Motivating Your Teen: The Importance of Releasing Parental Expectations
20:37 Empowering Teenagers: Helping Them Discover Their Authentic Self
21:13 Building a Strong Emotional Bond with Your Teenager
25:37 Identifying and Creating Opportunities for Your Teen to Shine
30:51 Normalizing the Challenges of Raising Teenagers
37:15 How Social Media Affects Teen Behavior: Understanding the Impact
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Kirk Martin
Website: CelebrateCalm.com
Instagram: @calmparentingpodcast
Facebook: @CelebrateCalm
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:01.646) Hey parents, if you're struggling to get through to your strong-willed teenager, feeling like every conversation turns into a battle, you're not alone. Today we're diving into three ways to motivate strong-willed teenagers. I'm joined by a special guest who's a game changer in this area, Kirk Martin. Kirk is the founder of CelebrateCom.com and host of the Calm Parenting podcast. He’s mastered the art of transforming defiance and power struggles into productive conversations. Today, he’s going to share practical strategies to not only get our teens to listen but also build a close, trusting relationship with them. Kirk, welcome to the show.
Kirk (00:42.332) Dr. Cam, I'm super excited to be here!
Dr. Cam (00:44.874) Yes, this is great. Let's start with your backstory. What inspired you to start working with parents and their teenagers?
Kirk (00:53.02) Our own son. Our son, Casey, came out of the womb with boxing gloves on – that kind of strong-willed kid who fights you over everything. Like most parents, I parented like my dad did: fear and intimidation, yelling, and screaming. But with a strong-willed child, you know this – they’re fight-or-flight kids. You double down on your discipline, and your strong-willed child will push back even harder.
Dr. Cam (01:22.375) Exactly.
Kirk (01:23.644) So, I spent the first seven or eight years of his life trying to change him, thinking, "He just needs to listen to me." But then I realized, no, I need to change myself. I was yelling at my son, telling him to calm down, when inside, he was probably thinking, "Apparently, you haven't mastered that skill at 35!" Everything changed when I changed. I stopped feeding off my anxiety, control issues, and perfectionism as a parent. Then, we did something a little weird that my wife hated. I said, “I have an awesome idea—let’s bring in strong-willed kids, kids on the spectrum, into our home for something called Lego camp.” The idea was to teach impulse control, emotion regulation, and social skills in real-life situations, not in an office. And all the kids came, not knowing they were being worked on. It was kind of like play therapy, but outside of an office setting.
We did that for a decade, and over 1,500 kids came through our home. That’s the backstory. Eventually, we started speaking, and I shifted from working with kids—which was the easy part—to working with the parents. You know this, Dr. Cam: we, as parents, bring so much baggage into it. But when I changed, everything shifted in the family dynamic.
Dr. Cam (03:10.34) I love that. And I love how it started with your self-awareness because that’s the key to all of parenting—the ability to stop and ask, "What’s my part in this dynamic?" If we focus on changing our teen, nothing will change unless we're willing to change ourselves.
Kirk (03:30.684) Yeah, that’s true. You know, when you're looking at that middle school child who's been in the same hoodie for 18 straight days, playing video games, and you start thinking, "Who’s going to marry this kid? Who’s going to hire this kid?" You start lecturing them, pointing out everything they're doing wrong.
Dr. Cam (03:32.302) So, what’s the problem with that approach?
Kirk (03:57.924) Eventually, they shut down or say, “Screw you” inside, thinking, “You're never happy with me.” The good news, though, is if our success as a family depends on changing our spouse or child, we’re in trouble. We can’t change another person. But if it depends on changing ourselves, we’ve got a shot. When you change yourself, it actually changes how your kids respond to you.
Dr. Cam (04:32.164) 100%. And when you started working with parents, my whole philosophy is the same. Teens won’t change unless we work with the parents. Once the parents change, the teens usually come along, too. So let’s talk about that typical teen—the one wearing the hoodie, hiding in their room playing games, and giving one-word responses when we ask about their day. A lot of parents take that very personally. They feel like their teen is pushing them out of their life, so they try to insert themselves more and more. Or they demand that their teen come down and spend time with them, regardless of whether the teen enjoys it. Why don’t these approaches work?
Kirk (05:27.516) Well, kids—especially teens—are supposed to be independent, right? It would be weird if a 15-year-old said, "Mom, I’d rather spend time with you than my friends." That’s the normal stage for them. With strong-willed kids, the more you push, the more they resist. For me, it’s about drawing them to me and leading. For example, when our son was a teenager, if he brought something up, I would think, “I have this lecture in my head about how to choose friends.” But instead, I’d say, “Hey, Casey, I have some thoughts on that, but I need to get started on dinner. I’ll be in the garage, and if you want to come chat later, I’d love to share.” I wasn’t forcing it on him. They won’t come to you and say, “Dad, you have so much wisdom, I’m ready to hear it.” They’ll probably say, “Okay, what are your dumb ideas?” But I don’t take it personally. Any positive interaction is a win. It’s all about resetting expectations.
Dr. Cam (07:14.306) Yes! That’s such a great point. And honestly, that’s a sign of healthy development. It’s normal for a teen to be a little sassy.
Kirk (07:18.908) Right! It would be strange if they weren’t a little sassy at 13 or 16. There’s a difference between normal sass and outright defiance. If they’re calling you names or saying, “I hate you,” that’s a different issue. But the normal sass is just part of growing up.
Dr. Cam (07:39.902) Exactly. What I’ve seen is that the more extreme attitude often comes after a lot of normal sass and being shut down or punished for it. They get frustrated when their normal attempts at independence aren’t accepted. Have you noticed that?
Kirk (08:07.164) Yeah, Dr. Cam, do you agree with this? When they’ve crossed that threshold into anger and frustration, it’s almost like they’re crying out, “I’ve been trying to tell you this, but you’re not listening.” They’re not mature enough to say, “Dad, you haven’t adjusted well to my new independence. Can we talk about this?” So it just comes out in anger. Does that sound right?
Dr. Cam (08:41.546) It's a hundred percent, and that's what the teens tell me all the time. Several of them have actually tried saying not exactly the words you've used, but have tried saying that and gotten shot down. Like, "You're being disrespectful telling me what I need to do." Right? And so teens don't have a voice. Even if they see this and ask for something to be changed, they don’t get heard. They get shut down, and that being shut down a few times leads to this: "I don't care anymore. If you're going to make my life miserable, I'm going to make your life miserable." And I see a lot of that.
Kirk (09:18.554) And they'll win at that because the strong-willed kids don’t care about consequences, right? So you’ll be like, “Well, I’m going to take away all your video games,” and they’re like, “Fine. I will literally sit in my room and stare at the wall.” Then the parents are going to freak out. It’s not about winning in that situation. So, good. Yeah, I found people of all ages want to be heard. And it doesn't mean we have to endlessly listen to every little complaint—not that. But most of our teenagers, they're really bright kids, right? And I always tell parents, “Listen, they’re trying to tell you something.” It doesn’t mean you give in, you don’t buy them everything they want, not that. But when they do bring something up, I like the more humble approach, which is saying, “Hey, I need to apologize to you because I think I’ve spent the last five, seven, 13 years just lecturing you and just talking all the time, and I haven’t really listened.” And if you start listening, well, then they’re gonna come to you too, right? They might spend like seven minutes with you instead of a minute and a half at night. So, right? 'Cause I’m always with teens, I’m like, “Take any opportunity you can.” Because typical teenage life, to me, is—especially during the school year—they come home, they don’t want to talk about school.
By the way, can I share this one? Kind of a cool idea. So the strong-willed kids that we work with, they’re not always great at school. They’re really smart, but they’re not. So asking them after school, “Hey, how was your day at school?” It’s like, “Hey, how was that day at the place that you don’t have a lot of friends, you’re bored?” Yeah, it sucks. What else do you want to know, Mom? Right? And then the next question is, “Well, do you have any homework?” “No, I got it all done in study hall.” And they just lied to you.
Dr. Cam (10:44.206) Yes, please.
Kirk (11:12.016) That afternoon time after school, when you ask about their day, it sounds like an interrogation to them because it’s filled with our anxiety. "How did you do? How did you do on that test?" Because I need you to do well on that test so you can get a good grade, so you can get into the right college, so you can get a good job, so you can get that. So after school, sometimes, complete silence at times can be really wonderful. And if you want to have a conversation, this is really cool to say: “Hey, you know what? Something happened to me today at the post office, at work, or in the political world. I’m curious, what would you do if you were in my situation?” And now you switch it from interrogating them about their day to listening to their ideas about your day. It’s a really cool thing to get them to open up.
Dr. Cam (12:02.432) It is amazing, and I want to throw in there too that parents will listen to this and then they’ll go do it. They’ll ask exactly what you just said, and their kids will be like, “I don’t care.” So the reason I say this is because it’s not something that you can just snap and go, "Okay, I’m going to change my approach today," and they’re immediately going to change their response. That does not happen, right? What can parents...
Kirk (12:25.372) No, it’s immediate, Dr. Cam. All you have to do is one time, and then they should... I’m kidding. No, of course, yeah. Well, by the time you get to the teen years, you’ve had at least 13 years, especially the kids we work with. I mean, they’re in trouble from the time they’re little. They’ve developed a defensive kind of shield around their heart. They’ve been in trouble a lot. It’s going to take time. And I always encourage parents: I’m after the really long game.
Dr. Cam (12:30.052) Exactly. And everything changes.
Kirk (12:55.26) I’m after these kids bringing their grandkids to you, right? Because, you know, you work with these families. Sometimes the relationship has been severed and hurt for 13 or 14 years. So I play the long game. And so, look, you change... anyway, I want you to change, not because you’re hoping for a result, but just because it’s the right thing to do, right? And it will bear fruit. It sometimes just takes time. Yeah, so do it a few times and don’t be discouraged when they say, “I don’t know.”
I tried your method and he said, “I don’t know.” I’m like, okay, because he’s waiting for you. He’s going to say something, and then your next question is going to be, “So how was school today? Did you get your homework done?” Like, you know what... An apology, I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older, apologies and praising kids are all just statements of fact. “Hey, I want to apologize because for the first...
Dr. Cam (13:35.549) It’s a trap.
Kirk (13:52.572) Thirteen years of your life, I think I’ve sent the message that you’re not capable of being successful. I’ve micromanaged you. I lecture you. I’m always on you about your room, your hygiene, all of this. And that’s about my own anxiety. I want to apologize. It’s not groveling. I don’t want to say, “I’ve been such a bad parent.” It’s just an acknowledgment of truth—that’s the way I’ve done it. And I can imagine that’s made you feel... and then you fill that in. Like, “You could never please me.” That was mine with my son. “Hey Casey, it’s like you could never please me because I’m never really happy.” Right? I’ll say like, “Hey, good job, but...” So when I started having these discussions with him, he never looked at me and said, “Dad, that’s so meaningful to me that you would acknowledge that.” Not in the moment, but I could see it was like, “My dad’s getting it now.” And it was connecting with his heart, and it slowly began to shift our relationship.
Dr. Cam (14:55.854) Yeah, I think that is so beautiful because we need to shift our focus not from getting the response we want from our kids. Because we’re setting them up to fail and us to be disappointed. But setting it up so that we are showing up the way we want to show up for them consistently and without expectation of how they’re going to respond. And I think that expectation is very difficult to manage.
Kirk (15:26.524) That’s good, Dr. Cam. That’s good. We could end it right there. Boom. No, that’s the hard part. But that’s the same as it is for, you know, a three-year-old. It’s like, “Well, when’s my toddler going to start to get some self-discipline?” I’m like, “She’s not 40, okay?” Like, they’re developing. So yeah, I’m with you on that. You do the right thing, and the really great thing, which I know you’ve found is...
Dr. Cam (15:29.884) Right there, mic drop, boom.
Kirk (15:55.534) It changes you as a person. All that anxiety—it affects every relationship. And now, especially in the teen years, moms and dads, you've done a good job with your kids, right? If you're listening to a parenting podcast, you're a good parent. The bad ones aren’t tuning in. You've done everything. You've given every lecture, hopefully modeled things well. So now, throw that extra energy into changing yourself. You don’t need to make sandwiches anymore, you have more time. It will free you to enjoy the rest of your life, and your kids will see that. They’ll watch and say, "I just saw my mom or dad change right in front of my eyes." That’s the biggest lesson you could give them.
Dr. Cam (16:52.034) Yeah, it's amazing when we do that. But I know parents are still thinking, "Okay, you’ve said if I listen and change, I’ll see results, but how do I get my teen to do what I want?" They want their teen to get up and do something. If their kid stays in their room all day, not motivated, they’re worried, “How do I put fire in their belly?”
Kirk (17:41.66) You can’t put fire in their belly. That’s step one: You can’t do it. Parents, you’ve tried rewards, money, bribery. You’ve tried every consequence and punishment. It’s been 15 years, and none of that worked. So realize, you can’t do it for them.
Dr. Cam (17:43.62) Thank you.
Kirk (18:11.844) Building your connection with them is the most important thing you can do. Bonding over something they’re interested in is key. I know as a dad, I used to think, “Let me get my son interested in what I like.” My son was super into cars, and I hated cars. But every Saturday, we went to a dealership to look at cars and test drive them. It was agenda-free time. I wasn’t allowed to make dad analogies—no "life is like a car" talk. We just enjoyed each other.
Try to enjoy your teen. Smile at their attitude. They’re smart kids, and sometimes their comments are disrespectful, but clever too. I’d think, "That was really disrespectful, but well done." They’re smart.
Another idea for strong-willed kids: Ask them to teach you something. You’ve spent their whole life telling them what to do, but let them teach you something. Ask them to help with technology. My son helped me, and it gave him a sense of agency—he wasn’t the little boy anymore.
You also have to fight the anxiety. Your kids will change. Look, I was a dopey 15-year-old. If you looked at me back then, you’d think, "How is this kid going to succeed?" They grow and change. But I promise, the sooner you release them—say, "I release you to be who you are, to be the person you’re supposed to be"—that’s powerful language.
Dr. Cam (20:34.564) That’s really powerful. I love that.
Kirk (20:37.702) Can you talk about that for a minute? Because you’re good at this with teens—releasing them.
Dr. Cam (20:44.58) From the teen perspective, they spend so much time trying to get approval from their parents. They end up disregarding who they are to meet their parents' expectations. So they start doubting themselves, not having the confidence to make decisions or share their opinions. This causes them to shut down.
When we release them from our expectations, it’s like cutting the cord. A lot of parents see their kids as an extension of themselves, which is why they try to control them. But if we see our kids as separate people, our role is to adapt to their needs.
Kirk (21:52.656) Dr. Cam, that’s awesome. If you do that, then my second step would be this: For the next week, affirm everything your child is already doing well. Just relentlessly. "Hey, nice job with that." With strong-willed kids, keep it short and sweet. "I saw how you handled that. You’re growing." Don’t expect long thank-yous. Praise the small things, like when they bring their plate to the sink.
It’s easy to get irritated by the typical teen behavior—leaving the fridge open, eating snacks, leaving trash around. But when they do something good, even small things, acknowledge it. Simple stuff like, “I really love hearing your perspective.” No need for long speeches.
Dr. Cam (23:29.702) It’s so uncomfortable.
Kirk (23:48.154) Here’s something fantastic: If your kids play video games, recognize the positive traits they show. I hated video games. I wanted my son to be outside, but I realized when he played, he was goal-oriented, persistent, and a leader. I said to him, “I’ve noticed you’re really motivated and persistent when you’re on your video games. When you find your vision in life, you’ll use those qualities to crush it.” And then I gave him a fist bump and walked out.
Dr. Cam (24:12.452) That’s great!
Kirk (24:15.704) It’s about recognizing the good qualities they already have. Strong-willed kids may only do the bare minimum, but affirm their progress.
If I could give you one more tip: Help your kids use their natural gifts, talents, and passions outside the home. The neurotypical kids get praise for being good at school, but our strong-willed kids often don’t excel in the typical school setting. Outside the home, they can shine.
Dr. Cam (24:52) That’s huge.
Kirk (25:00) Let them use their gifts in other settings. And third, hold them accountable to another adult. Other adults see things you might not. They can hold your kids accountable in ways you can’t.
For example, if your kid loves soccer but struggles with school, find a coach who could use their help with younger kids. This external validation, from someone else, can be powerful.
I had a mom ask me about her teenage daughter with a bad attitude. I asked, “What does she love doing?” The daughter loved soccer and was great with little kids. I suggested she help out at a local soccer practice. The daughter was thrilled, and it gave her a sense of purpose. It worked because the recognition came from someone outside the family.
That’s the key—find a way to connect your kid’s passions with real-world opportunities.
Dr. Cam (27:56.94): Yeah, that's a big difference. That right there separates whether it's going to work or not.
Kirk (28:02.78): Yeah, so arrange that. They'll do it for someone else because they like pleasing others, just not you. So this girl, Rebecca, goes out on Tuesday night. She's in her environment, around little kids, and loves soccer. At the end of practice, she gets hugs from 12 little girls. When she comes home, does she have attitude? No, because her gifts were drawn out of her, and she had a purpose, something she was good at doing. The coach said, "We’ve got a game Saturday morning. Could you help out?" Of course, she’s there. After the game, two sets of parents came up to her and said, "Look, we don't know who you are, but our daughters never stopped talking about you. They're struggling in school. Would you consider tutoring them?" Not knowing that Rebecca hadn’t done schoolwork in years. But now, she has a reason to do it—because she wants to help these little kids. The key is to discover what motivates your child, not what motivates you.
As parents, we might be motivated by school because we were good at it and got attention. But maybe your child isn’t good at school. You need to discover what motivates them. The coach told Rebecca, "If you're going to work with these little kids, I better not hear from your mom that you're mouthing off. You better keep a B average if you’re going to help me because I’m looking for a leader." Now, Rebecca has something to work for.
We often do this with kids who are good with animals. Get them volunteering at a veterinarian's office. The vet might say, "You've got a gift with animals. You could be a vet one day." And that’s the first time someone has told that child they could be a veterinarian. Everyone else is focused on their grades and bad behavior. But the vet sees the gift. That’s when the child comes home and says, "Mom, I want to be a veterinarian." And mom’s thinking, "I’m not sure you're even making it out of middle school," but now they're motivated. So I’d encourage you to find their mission and a mentor. A mission they can throw themselves into.
Dr. Cam (30:51.438): Yeah, that's the beauty of having your own podcast. You can go as long as you want.
Kirk (30:52.086): I’ll give you one more, and I’m sorry for dominating the conversation. You know who’s really good with teenagers? Older people. Find an older couple in your neighborhood and have them reach out to your teenager. Ask them for help with something they can’t do anymore. Your teenager walks in, and they’re going to love on them. They miss having kids around, and they’ll teach them about life. Your teens will come home saying, "Yeah, I like the Robinsons down the street. They said that I'm really good at X." And then, just send them to do their homework, and they'll spend a lot of time with that old couple. It's a really effective strategy for teens. Older people are very grounding for teens. They've been through hard times, and they don’t carry all that anxiety. They can reach into a teenager's heart in a way that other people can’t. They'll say, "I remember what that was like," even if it was back in 1947. There's something beautiful about that.
Dr. Cam (32:19.78): I really, really love that. And I think it's beneficial for both sides because the couple probably loves having that younger energy too. But having someone who has no agenda, who can purely see the child’s heart and authenticity, and just be okay with whatever that is—it's priceless. When teens act out, it's a cry for exactly that. That’s why they have attitude. They're not just being nasty for the sake of it. It's not like they all meet online and say, “Let’s be mean today.” They’re reacting to their environment. If they're reacting poorly, that means the environment isn't giving them what they need to thrive. That’s not their fault.
Kirk (33:20.925): Preach it. I love that. I can tell you're passionate about it because it’s true. You begin to control your own anxiety, affirm them for what they're doing well, and then put them in situations where they can help little kids, work with animals, or be around older people. You’ll see a subtle shift. But be patient. They're fighting 13, 15, 17 years of a different way. So go slowly with it. It’s a cool process. My number one piece of advice is to enjoy your teenagers. Enjoy a little bit of that attitude. Enjoy their energy. Ask them about their friends. They’ll talk inappropriately, of course, and sometimes just laugh. You might think, “That’s inappropriate,” but it's actually spot-on. Like, "Sarah’s mom is a little like that." You’re right.
Dr. Cam (34:18.744): Yeah. And I think it’s also about accepting their language. Just because they don’t use our language doesn’t mean it’s disrespectful. I see so many people complaining about their kids calling them "bro." But that’s actually a term of endearment. For them, it’s not disrespectful—it's them being chummy. Parents get upset, but it’s just their way of connecting. Understanding their language can make a big difference.
Kirk (34:40.93): It is. You can always look at it if they use it in a disrespectful way, right? But when they say, "Okay, bro," you can have some fun with it. The next time they ask for something, you can say, "Hey, it’s unfortunate, but your bro doesn’t have money and can’t drive. But your dad can." I did that with my son once. But you can have fun with it instead of saying, “When I was a kid, if I’d called my dad bro…” Right? That just means you're really old.
Dr. Cam (35:13.928): It does! And I tell parents this all the time: You are not as amazing and perfect as you think you were. I can guarantee you drove your parents crazy too.
Kirk (35:26.012): Yeah, I always tell dads, “Look, you were a dopey 8-year-old and a clueless 14-year-old. You were just trying to figure life out. They’re just trying to figure life out too.” I always tell parents, relax a little. It's like, yes, we have to train them, but remember—they're not 35 yet. Same with teenagers. They're not grown-ups yet. When it comes to toddlers, I tell parents, “Write a job description for a 3-year-old.” It's not to wake up, put on a suit, and be perfect—it’s to make messes, be curious, and explore. It's the same with teenagers. They’re not adults. But one other thing I’d throw in is normalizing the teen years for them.
This is a weird time in life. There's no other time when you’re grouped in classes with kids your own age, listening to people talk about stuff you just don’t care about, and dealing with all the social stuff. As an adult, you get to choose so much, but right now, it's hard. So, if they feel awkward, they should. Because they are. Just don’t tell them that.
Dr. Cam (36:27.074): Yeah, it's terrible.
Kirk (36:47.18): Absolutely. Their hormones are out of control. They're not even in control of their own bodies, half the time. Their minds and thoughts are all over the place. It's a wonder how teenage boys can even pay attention in class when there's Instagram out there, with all those images they can see. Seriously. I mean, I don’t know how they get up in the morning and do anything.
 Dr. Cam (37:11.99): Exactly. It's true.
Kirk (37:15.78): I didn't mean to be inappropriate, but as teenage boys, we had to sneak around to see pictures in a magazine. And now it's like, my Instagram feed is full of girls with no clothes on. Like that's a hard world to navigate. We didn't have this whole social media thing. It's hard for us as adults too—our friends are posting about vacations, and we’re left wondering, "How come we didn’t take that nice vacation?"
Dr. Cam (37:44.342): Right? I’ll tell you, I see more pressure coming from parents based on what they see on Instagram and social media, which they then put on their kids because they say, "Well, look, all my friends' kids are doing this. So you need to do it too." Parents, you can't use your phone to judge your kids and what you see on their phones to judge them. That’s a hard thing. And I think the other thing—and I’m curious what your thoughts are on this—I personally am highly annoyed with how much emphasis is being put on social media and tech as the cause of mental health issues. I see it more as a symptom than the actual cause of the problem.
Kirk (38:28.764): I agree. And this is where I’m not about guilt-blaming parents, right? I’m very honest with parents. I’ll say, "Hey, you're a freak in that area. You need to stop that." But if you have a really good bond and a trusting relationship with your child, and they’re doing some positive, constructive things—that’s my goal with the mission and mentor—let’s just start with something simple. Let’s just take them 30 minutes down to the Robinson’s house one day a week. If they’re doing that, then the outside pressures of social media won’t hit them as hard. They’re a little inoculated. But if they always feel like they can never please their parents, and everyone’s trying to make them be someone they’re not, then they’re much more susceptible to things like vaping and other risky behaviors. Focus on the connection. Stay close to your kids.
And even if they just sit in their room and don’t get good grades, you have smart kids. Once they get a vision for their life, strong-willed kids often just do the bare minimum to get by all the way through high school. And you’ll think, "But you’re not doing this, or not doing that." But I’m telling you—it’s strategically brilliant.
Dr. Cam (39:43.96): That’s right. They’re working smart, not hard.
Kirk (39:46.588): Why would they do extra work to get grades they don’t care about? We told them, "In order to keep your screens, you have to maintain exactly a 79.3 average." And they’ll get a 79.3—not a 79.4. But why wouldn’t they do their best? Because they’re not motivated by it. Then, as they get a little older, gain vision, and take ownership of their lives, they turn it on. I’ll tell you, the strong-willed kids have it harder, but they’re not made to be kids. You put them in the adult world, and they crush it.
Look, our son, Casey, was horrible as a child. He didn’t clean his room and was awful. But in the real world, which is what you’re raising them for—you’re not raising kids to be kids, you’re raising them to be adults—Casey crushes it. He’s just terrible at all the arbitrary kid stuff. And parents, cleaning their bedrooms? There’s a reason there’s a door. Just chill. You’re a freak. Own that. And by the way, if there’s a fire, they’ll be able to get out. That’s an excuse. Sit in the mess until it doesn’t trigger you.
Dr. Cam (40:54.39): Yeah, I know. We are so on the same page, Kirk. I’m exactly the same way. I’ve got the messy room and I’m like, "Do not even leave that cracked open because it’ll give me heart palpitations." But it’s your space. It’s not my space. You deal with it the way you want to deal with it. I agree with everything you’re saying. I love that. So, Kirk, how do people find you?
Kirk (41:13.638): You can look up the Calm Parenting Podcast. That’s the best way. We’re also at CelebrateCalm.com, but the Calm Parenting Podcast is the main one. You can email us if you have specific issues with teens or kids. Some of you probably have younger kids too—hopefully, more compliant, easy ones. But hopefully not. Because the strong-willed kids will change you and make you a different person. It’s awesome. So yeah, check out the podcast.
Dr. Cam (41:48.576): I love it. Thank you so much, Kirk, for joining us today. I really appreciate you. You’re awesome.
Kirk (41:51.142): Dr. Cam, you’re awesome. I can’t wait to send a lot of our teens directly to your podcast because your approach is so great. You’re chill, you’re not freaking out about stuff, and you’re really good at this. Thank you for what you’re doing.
Dr. Cam (42:05.55): Thank you. Absolutely.
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together.
#theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

Helping Tweens Succeed in School: Parenting Strategies for Academic Success

Helping your tween thrive academically isn’t just about grades—it’s about fostering motivation, independence, and a love for learning. In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with JoAnn Schauf, founder of Your Tween and You, to discuss how parents can set their tweens up for success in school without constant battles over homework and grades.
JoAnn, often called the Parent Whisperer, shares expert insights from her book Loving the Alien: How to Parent Your Tween. She provides practical strategies to help tweens develop strong study habits, take ownership of their learning, and build confidence in their abilities.
 
What You'll Learn in This Episode
How to encourage motivation without nagging
The best ways to help your tween set and reach academic goals
Why focusing on strengths leads to better learning outcomes
How to balance support and independence in schoolwork
The role of technology in learning—and how to set boundaries
 
5 Key Takeaways for Parents of Tweens
Collaboration boosts motivation – Involve tweens in goal-setting to help them feel invested in their education.
Study habits matter more than grades – Focus on effort, organization, and progress rather than just report cards.
Let them take ownership – Encourage problem-solving instead of fixing everything for them.
Support, don’t micromanage – Guide your tween in developing independence rather than controlling their work.
Praise the process, not just the outcome – Recognize hard work, consistency, and small wins to build confidence.
 
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Resources Mentioned in This Episode
20% discount for new coaching clients through September 15, 2024 at YourTweenandYou.com
Episode Chapters
00:00 – Introduction and Background
03:01 – Encouraging Motivation Without Nagging
08:05 – Setting Realistic Academic Goals
13:56 – Balancing Support and Independence
19:01 – The Role of Technology in Learning
24:54 – Focusing on Strengths Over Grades
31:48 – Helping Tweens Build Study Habits
36:50 – Conclusion and Book Recommendation
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: JoAnn Schauf
Website: YourTweenandYou.com
Instagram: @YourTweenandYou
YouTube: Your Tween and You
Facebook: @YourTweenandYou
LinkedIn: JoAnn Schauf
 
Connect with Your Host: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:00.762)Hello, parents of tweens and teens! As the new school year approaches, prepping our tweens for success is more important than ever. Today, we're diving into some of the biggest challenges parents face: balancing expectations, navigating social dynamics, and setting up accountability for academic success. Our special guest, JoAnn Schauf, is here to share expert insights. Often called the "Parent Whisperer," JoAnn is the author of Loving the Alien: How to Parent Your Tween and founder of Your Tween and You, a resource dedicated to supporting, empowering, and inspiring parents. She’s here to give us valuable tips and actionable advice to help our tweens have their best school year yet. JoAnn, welcome to the show!
JoAnn Schauf (00:48.354)Thank you so much! It’s so fun to be here.
Dr. Cam (00:50.444)It is! I love starting with the backstory. What inspired you to help parents and their tweens?
JoAnn Schauf (00:58.872)This has been building for a while. I was a school counselor when cell phones first became a big thing, and parents were tearing their hair out. It was already tough—tweens were hibernating in their rooms, and parents felt lost because they weren’t as involved in middle school as they were in elementary school. At one point, I had more parents in my office than students because they didn’t know what to do with technology. Then I realized—it wasn’t just technology. There were so many things parents needed help with. So, I thought, They need a book. They need tools and strategies to understand what’s going on with their tweens. That’s how it all started.
Dr. Cam (01:49.976)Such a big need! By the time this episode airs, school will be even closer, and parents are already starting to panic. What are some of the biggest challenges they come to you about?
JoAnn Schauf (02:15.054)Technology is a huge one. It used to be recommended to keep the family computer in a shared space so parents could monitor usage. Now, we’ve gone from that to handing kids a smartphone with unlimited access, and no one knew the rules. Parents didn’t grow up with this either, so there wasn’t any historical guidance. We had to write a playbook to help them figure it out.
Dr. Cam (02:54.042)Yeah, what specific challenges are causing the biggest struggles?
JoAnn Schauf (03:01.422)Everything from stranger danger to video game addiction to kids staying up all night texting. Sleep is critical, and if they’re on their phones all night, it affects everything. Parents need to take control, but we also need to think about our own screen habits. If we’re on our phones constantly, we’re not setting a great example. It’s easy to fall into the “do as I say, not as I do” trap.
Dr. Cam (03:48.629)All the time. Exactly.
JoAnn Schauf (03:51.118)One little device has completely changed how we function as a society.
Dr. Cam (04:02.274)It really has. And parents often see it as a negative just because it’s different from how we grew up. A lot of school-related conflict comes down to two things: pressure to succeed and battles over phone use. Parents expect straight A’s in every subject, regardless of a child’s strengths or interests, and they want them off their phones completely during homework. But many kids actually use their phones to help with schoolwork—whether it’s researching online or FaceTiming a friend for support. When we take the phone away, we might be removing their learning tools instead of solving the real problem. How do we find a balance where kids can focus without constant battles over technology?
JoAnn Schauf (05:22.318)The key is to avoid turning it into a battle. The moment it becomes a power struggle, no one wins. I encourage parents to collaborate instead of just laying down the law. Saying, “You can only use it from this time to this time, and it stays in the kitchen the rest of the day,” creates a feeling of distrust. The stricter you are, the more they’ll resist. A better approach is to invite them into a conversation:
“School’s starting soon. You’ve had a lot of freedom with technology over the summer. Let’s figure out a plan together so we’re not constantly fighting about it.”
Dr. Cam (06:01.442)Yes! That’s not just teens—that’s human nature.
JoAnn Schauf (06:17.592)Exactly. This approach gives them a sense of ownership. Instead of laying down rules, ask, “How can we set this up so we both feel good about it?” That way, it’s a collaborative solution, not a dictatorship.
Dr. Cam (06:31.866)I love that. But let’s be real—many parents interpret “having a conversation” as “I’ll tell you the rules, and you’ll listen.” Why doesn’t that work?
JoAnn Schauf (06:50.926)Because tweens don’t want to be bossed around. They’re figuring out their identity, what they believe in, and how they fit into the world. Two things they crave most are independence and autonomy. If you just lay down rules, they’ll resist—even if they agree with you. It’s part of growing up.
Dr. Cam (07:31.696)And if they do obey, they’re either miserable or sneaky about it.
JoAnn Schauf (07:36.526)Right. That’s why parents need to gradually let go of control so kids learn to self-regulate. By the time they’re on their own at 18 or 21, they need to know how to manage their time, their responsibilities, and yes—their screen use.
Dr. Cam (08:12.016)Many parents worry that if they don’t enforce strict limits, their kids will be on their phones 24/7 and their grades will plummet. What’s your response?
JoAnn Schauf (08:30.668)Collaboration is key. Say, “I don’t want to be the bad guy. I don’t want your phone to be the source of constant fights. How can we make this work for both of us?” If they feel involved in setting the rules, they’re much more likely to follow them.
Dr. Cam (09:03.354)Absolutely. Tweens and teens know their phones are distracting. Sometimes, they turn to them because they’re bored—not because they don’t care about school. Removing the phone doesn’t make homework more engaging. And not all screen time is equal.
JoAnn Schauf (09:44.206)Exactly! That’s why it’s important to define what’s allowed and what’s not. Tell them, “These are the apps I’m okay with. Since I’m paying for the phone, I need to see what you’re doing on it.” They won’t love that, but it’s about safety, not control. Parents aren’t spying—they’re making sure their kids are safe and using technology in a healthy way.
Dr. Cam (10:39.854): Yeah, so I think this is one of those fine lines you have to walk carefully because I agree with you. However, how we do it makes all the difference. If it's "This is my phone, I get to take it whenever I want," that’s hard because you gave it to them, and they’re having personal conversations with their friends. A lot of the kids I talk to have nothing to hide, but they feel responsible for keeping what their friends say confidential. I’ve had this experience with my daughter, where I said, "I want to look at this," and she got really upset. I asked, "What are you hiding?" It turned out she wasn’t hiding anything. I trust her, but she was worried about her friends. So I think how we handle the phone is important. I want to bring this back to academics because it’s really important. We want to create an expectation for school, but how do we do that so both we as parents and our teens are okay with it? If it doesn’t work for them, they won’t abide by it.
JoAnn Schauf (11:58.028): Right, and communication is really important. When we listen to understand our kids, we get knowledge about how they feel, what they’re doing, and what their plans are. The connection comes from listening, not just from telling them what to do. If we’re always focusing on things they’ve done wrong, they won’t feel comfortable coming to us with issues, like if someone is bothering them at school. As parents, it's on us to build that connection, to talk in a way they feel heard and listened to. One thing I really like is giving your child a voice. For example, when we talk about grades, we can ask, "What grades do you think you can earn?" Instead of saying, "I want you to get A's and B's," ask, "What do you think you can earn in math?" If math is their strong subject, they might say, "I can get between a 95 and 98 in math, no problem." But if they hate writing and reading, they might say, "I don’t like language arts. An 88 sounds good for me." The key is setting realistic goals. We can’t expect them to get all A’s everywhere, but if we help them set achievable goals, they’re more likely to succeed. Before school starts, I suggest sitting down with your teen to talk about their goals. The goals should be theirs, not ours.
Dr. Cam (15:14.468): Exactly. It’s also important to revisit those goals later in the year because it’s hard to set goals before they know the teacher, the class, or the workload. I’ve seen kids who do really well in elementary school but struggle in middle school because the work is tougher. The subjects become more specialized, and they realize, "I’m great in literature but not so good at science." Suddenly, they’re not straight A students anymore, and they think, "I’m stupid." They give up across the board. So I love your idea of helping them identify what they’re passionate about and where they need to work harder. If they love a subject, they’ll go all in. For the subjects they don’t enjoy, they still have to put in the effort, but they don’t have to be perfect.
JoAnn Schauf (16:26.606): Yeah, and you’re so right about middle school. In elementary school, kids can often correct their mistakes to improve their grades. So, if they get a 78, they might redo it and end up with an 88 or 90. That can inflate their grade a bit because they’re getting second chances. Middle school doesn’t offer as many second chances, and the grading reflects that. This is a tough transition for kids, especially when they’ve been successful before. They think, "I was smart last year, but this year I’m not," and that can be a hard blow.
Dr. Cam (17:17.024): I see this a lot. Kids' grades start to drop, and they think, "If I’m not getting straight A’s, I’m just not a straight A student anymore," so they give up. This is why focusing too much on the grade can be harmful. If the focus is on getting the grade, kids might do the least amount of work to get it, or even cheat. So, Joanne, let’s talk about how to motivate kids, especially in middle school. How do we help them develop intrinsic motivation without nagging?
JoAnn Schauf (18:05.674): One way to do this is by focusing on the tasks that lead to good grades, not just the grades themselves. Ask them, "What time will you do your homework? How will you stay organized?" Many kids submit homework online but sometimes forget to turn it in. It’s about teaching them the building blocks of success: doing homework, turning it in, and staying organized. Without these skills, the grades won’t come. It’s important to reward the process. When they get their homework done on time or organize their backpack, celebrate that. It’s about them feeling proud of their effort, not about us saying, "I’m proud of you." Intrinsic motivation comes when kids recognize their own hard work and feel good about it.
Dr. Cam (19:25.284): Yeah, and not trying to please us. I like the building blocks too because as parents, we often say, "Your grades are failing; you need to do better." And when I ask the kids, "What do you mean by 'do better'?" they don't know how to answer. Let's look at what's getting in your way. It's not that they're lazy; they just forget things, like turning in assignments. They don’t think about stuff like that at this age. So let's figure out a plan or try different strategies to see what works for them. I'm not going to tell you what to do because it might not work for you. What works for you to get your homework in on time? How can you remind yourself?
JoAnn Schauf (20:13.326): Right. One helpful thing is for kids to realize they have to submit their homework at a specific time. Once they have a plan—doing the work at this time and submitting it at this time—it becomes a habit. All of these things—doing the work, writing it down, and turning it in—become habits. It’s so sad when kids do all the work and don’t get credit for it because they didn’t turn it in on time. They should get credit for their effort.
Dr. Cam (20:49.658): Exactly, and I want to add something. One of the worst inventions, in my opinion, is the ability for parents to check grades every second of the day. I think it’s harmful for both kids and parents. Parents start owning the grade, and teachers don’t always update the grades on time. I’ve seen kids getting in trouble for their grades when the teacher hasn’t entered them yet. It creates so much unnecessary pressure and unrealistic expectations. I just wish it would go away.
JoAnn Schauf (21:44.266): It really is crazy. Before this, kids had less stress because they didn’t walk in the door and hear, "Why did you get a C+ on that test? You studied so hard, you knew everything. How did that happen?" How can a kid even answer that? So, what I tell my clients is this: make a deal with your kids in the summer about what they want to earn and how their homework will look. Promise that you’ll never open the grade portal. Every week, sit down with them—maybe with brownies or ice cream, or go for a walk—and let them open the portal to show you their grades. When they see it, they can think, "No wonder I have an 82 in social studies. I forgot to turn in that paper when I was sick." Then, they’ll take ownership and ask the teacher if they can turn it in late. That’s what ownership looks like.
Dr. Cam (22:56.934): I’m so glad you agree, Joanne. It’s all about ownership. I see it in the workplace too. People complain about Gen Z not having the right skills, but the problem is parents take so much ownership of everything that kids never learn how to do things themselves. We send them into the world with good grades, but they haven’t learned how to earn those grades on their own.
JoAnn Schauf (23:26.956): Exactly. When we own something, we take care of it, right? You get a new car, new dishes, or new clothes, and you take care of them because you own them. That feeling of ownership is powerful for kids. When parents don’t let go, it’s scary for them. They think if they don’t manage everything, their kids won’t succeed. But the truth is, kids would probably do better without the constant nagging. Just ask them, "What are you going to do? How are you going to handle your homework?" Let them decide. If they say, "I hate math, but I’ll do it first to get it out of the way," that’s their plan, and it’s empowering.
Dr. Cam (24:34.246): I love that one. "Go to the store and get this."
JoAnn Schauf (24:39.362): Yeah, there’s always that, "Can you stop what you’re doing and go get this?" But again, it’s their voice speaking, and that’s powerful.
Dr. Cam (24:43.878): It’s 100%. I’ve seen that with my daughter. She’s gone from having great grades to struggling, but she’s always taken ownership of it. Now, at 18, she manages everything herself. It’s amazing. She’s better at it than I am now.
Dr. Cam (25:22.63): She’s had ownership her whole life, including the responsibility to fail. If things didn’t work out, we never punished her; we worked together to figure it out. Now, she can solve problems on her own, which is incredible.
JoAnn Schauf (25:44.3): That’s awesome. You did a great job.
Dr. Cam (25:46.852): I’ve been focused on that. But parents have a hard time letting go because of fear—fear of what will happen if they do. I want to put more fear into them about not letting go, because that’s scarier. If they don’t, their kids won’t have the skills they need.
JoAnn Schauf (25:56.47): It’s true.
JoAnn Schauf (26:10.21): When you mentioned middle school earlier, that’s a great time for kids to experience failure. Failure is an opportunity to learn. If a kid didn’t study for a test, there’s no punishment. Instead, we ask, "If you could do it over, what would you do differently?" They might say, "I would’ve started reviewing my notes earlier." This kind of problem-solving teaches them what to do next time.
Dr. Cam (27:32.058): That’s great.
JoAnn Schauf (27:32.658): I did a workshop for teachers about "second-tier learning"—learning from mistakes. I asked them, "When you hand back tests, what happens?" They said they just move on. I asked, "What about helping them learn from what they missed?" After that, many teachers realized how valuable it is to give kids that chance to learn from their mistakes.
Dr. Cam (27:42.02): Yeah, it’s amazing when they can do that. And when they don’t fear failure, right? If they’re punished for failing, they’ll avoid it and hide it. But if they can solve the problem and learn from it, they won’t fear failure. They’ll be excited to try new things.
JoAnn Schauf (28:11.936): Exactly. Trying new things is so awesome for middle school kids. Sometimes, parents just need a reminder that failing in middle school won’t keep them from getting into Harvard Law School.
Dr. Cam (28:27.414): No, and getting into Harvard Law School isn’t a guarantee of a perfect life. Not everyone is made for Harvard Law. I think we need to focus on strengths too. Not all kids learn the same way. If they took a history test and didn’t do well, instead of saying, "Go study again," suggest something different—like watching a movie about it, reading a book, or playing a game. They could start learning in a fun way. My daughter, for example, if there’s a Broadway show about something, she’s all in. She knows everything about Hamilton, even if it's not totally accurate. So, let’s find ways to help them learn that works for them.
JoAnn Schauf (29:20.782): That’s a great idea. Kids love learning from videos, and hands-on learners need something tangible to connect with. If they didn’t get something right, have them show you what it looks like. They might build a model. The thing is, kids rarely realize they’re a hands-on learner, an auditory learner, or a visual learner. Once they or their parents figure it out, it really helps them learn in the way that works best.
Dr. Cam (29:53.956): Exactly. And going back to videos—many kids might not care about what they learn in school, but they’ll spend hours diving into YouTube, becoming experts in topics they care about. If they’re struggling in school, ask yourself: What are they interested in? Are they motivated there? If they are, your kid is already motivated.
JoAnn Schauf (30:30.54): Right. I had four kids, and they were all different. One of them really struggled in school. He’s a great kid—outgoing, friendly, with tons of friends—but grades were never his thing. But he was an amazing hockey player, and he loved it. He did well in hockey, so I let him play, no matter what his grades were. My other kids thought it wasn’t fair that he got to play, even when his grades weren’t perfect. But I always told them: “You need to do what you’re good at. Let's celebrate what you’re good at.” That helped my relationship with him because he knew I understood his struggles in school but also wanted to support his love for hockey. Parents should think about other ways to measure a child's success, beyond just grades.
Dr. Cam (31:47.802): I love that. We get so focused on grades, thinking they’re the only measure of success. But hockey has nothing to do with grades. Taking that away sends the message that anything else about them doesn’t matter. Plus, if they don’t have time for the things they love, they won’t have the energy or motivation to tackle the tough stuff, like schoolwork. I see this all the time—kids who enjoy nothing because it’s all work, and then they’re stressed and being yelled at to do their homework. It’s setting them up to fail.
JoAnn Schauf (32:39.48): No, I agree. When I was a kid, I hated being yelled at.
Dr. Cam (32:46.246): I still hate being yelled at. It’s just not fun.
JoAnn Schauf (32:50.51): It’s so disrespectful. That’s something I try to help parents understand—that their tone of voice matters. When you’re about to lecture your child because their room’s a mess and grandma’s coming over, they already know if you’re going to listen or lecture after the first couple of sentences. They can shut you out and look like they’re listening, but they’re really thinking about something else, like a new song or a YouTube video. If you want to make a difference, your tone can’t sound like a lecture or “I’m right, you’re wrong, and I’ll tell you why.” That’s my least favorite.
Dr. Cam (33:42.346): Right, because “I’m the parent.” But I think what’s hard is we perceive them not listening as disrespect, when really, they’re feeling disrespected and protecting themselves. It’s more about how we perceive it.
JoAnn Schauf (33:57.326): Exactly, Dr. Cam.
Dr. Cam (34:07.962): So, what are the top three things you want parents to take away from this episode?
JoAnn Schauf (34:13.004): First, I want them to understand the value of their child’s voice. Listen to understand them. Second, set up accountabilities for success. Let your child decide their grade goals, and then go over their grades together. Open that portal and hear the stories behind the numbers. Like, “Mrs. Perkins didn’t get the copies made, so they didn’t have to take that test.” You won’t get that from just opening the portal. And third, focus on your child’s strengths. For example, my daughter loved animals—dogs, cats, turtles—she was friends with them all. In seventh grade, I suggested she volunteer at a vet’s office. She wanted to be a vet, but after a few weeks, she fainted while watching a surgery. She knew she wasn’t cut out for being a vet. But it was a powerful learning experience. She could still volunteer in dog rescue, but now she knew her limits. Helping kids find their interests and honing their skills is really important.
Dr. Cam (36:24.302): When they’re moving toward something they’re passionate about, the motivation and drive are incredible. But if they’re dragging their heels, they’re probably not following their passion.
JoAnn Schauf (36:43.404): Exactly. Thank you so much for having me on today.
Dr. Cam (36:47.502): Thank you, JoAnn. I appreciate it.
JoAnn Schauf (36:50.956): I just want to mention that I have a book called Loving the Alien: How to Raise Your Tween. Every chapter starts with a story every parent will relate to, followed by strategies and skills to make life with your tween much more enjoyable.
Dr. Cam (37:14.426): That’s fantastic. I’ll put a link in the show notes so everyone can find it. Thank you again for joining us, JoAnn. It’s been a pleasure.
JoAnn Schauf (37:21.826): Thank you, it was my pleasure. Have a great day
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam
#parenting #tweens #academicmotivation #studyhabits

Essential Guide for Parents of 18-Year-Olds: Preparing for the Transition to Adulthood

Turning 18 is a significant milestone that brings up a whirlwind of emotions for both parents and teens. Parents often struggle with how much to loosen their grip, while teens may have unrealistic expectations of complete independence. In this episode, I’m joined by Joanna Lilley, a renowned Therapeutic Consultant and Wellness Gap Consultant, who specializes in guiding young adults through this critical transition.
Joanna shares valuable tips on how parents can prepare their teens for adulthood by teaching skills and responsibilities gradually, modeling the behavior they want to see, and creating opportunities for teens to practice independence. The episode also touches on the importance of letting go, trusting that your teen will figure things out, and how to approach the tough conversations about expectations. The key takeaway? Don't let the 18th birthday drive fear and worry—prepare ahead of time and have open, honest conversations with your teens.
 
WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
How to prepare your teen for adulthood by gradually teaching essential skills
Why modeling behavior is critical for guiding your teen
The importance of creating opportunities for teens to practice independence
How to let go and trust that your teen will navigate challenges
Why open conversations about expectations are essential for a smooth transition
 
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
Gradually teach teens skills and responsibilities to prepare them for adulthood.
Model the behavior you want to see in your teens.
Create opportunities for teens to practice independence.
Let go and trust that your teens will figure things out.
Have open conversations with teens about expectations.
 
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🔔 Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌
 
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Success Is Subjective Podcast: Listen here
 
EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 - Teens Turning 18: A Significant Shift
06:13 - Preparing Teens for Adulthood
09:19 - Teaching Skills and Responsibilities
14:56 - Letting Go and Focusing on Self-Care
 
CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Joanna Lilley
Website: www.lilleyconsulting.com
LinkedIn: Joanna Lilley
Facebook: Lilley Consulting LLC
YouTube: Lilley Consulting on YouTube
 
CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell
Website: AskDrCam.com
Instagram: @DrCamCaswell
TikTok: @the.teen.translator
YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam
Facebook: @DrCamCaswell
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
 
Dr. Cam Hello parents, Dr. Cam here. Today we're tackling the significant shift when our kids turn 18. Teens are eager to embrace their independence. They're legal, right? But parents struggle with how much to loosen their grip, especially if they don't feel their teen is quite prepared yet to be an adult. So, it's a complex and challenging time to navigate. Joining us today is Joanna Lilley, a therapeutic consultant specializing in guiding young adults through this pivotal transition. Joanna is going to help us address our concerns about our teen's readiness for adult responsibilities and finding the right balance of support and freedom. Joanna, welcome to the show.
Joanna Lilley (00:42.074) Thanks for having me.
Joanna Lilley (00:50.202) Well, I’ll say this topic is pretty par for the course for me. What I enjoy about working with young adults is that they do have autonomy and agency, but there's still a significant level of dependence and skill building that's needed. I enjoy it because it’s the perfect storm of how do we collaborate in this transitional period of launching into adulthood?
Dr. Cam (01:21.555) I love that, and I agree. It’s such a difficult thing to navigate for both teens and parents. It's funny, though, because when I work with a lot of kids—most of them are around 16 or 17—they envision that once they turn 18, they're completely independent. They think parents won’t have a say in what they do, and they’re free. Parents, on the other hand, think it's no different than when they were 16 or 17. As long as they’re under our roof, everything we say goes. When this time comes, those two very different views fuel a lot of conflict. So, let’s first talk about the teen's perspective. Why are they suddenly saying, “I’m free”—except for food, shelter, and all the things they still need from their parents?
Joanna Lilley (02:18.778) I'm sure it has a lot to do with how they were parented and how involved their parents were in their lives. There needs to be balance. For young adults who feel like they were over-managed, they have this countdown until their 18th birthday, thinking, "Once I turn 18, I’m free!" But the reality is, as you said, they’re still very dependent on their parents. It’s a cognitive dissonance—their idea of independence versus the reality of needing support.
Dr. Cam (03:06.547) Right. They see the freedom, but not the responsibility that comes with it. So, now let’s look at the parent's perspective. Why are parents often reluctant to let go when their kids turn 18? Is 18, other than being legally the age of adulthood, something parents should be concerned about?
Joanna Lilley (03:36.794) There’s certainly a fear that once their child turns 18, parents will lose control or their advice will no longer matter. But the reality is, if they’re under your roof, if you’re providing food or paying for school, just because they’re 18 doesn’t mean you lose influence over what they’re involved with or how they’re cared for. As they launch into adulthood, there’s still a shift in parenting. Parents get very tunnel-visioned because they’ve been so involved in their child’s life. Then, when 18 hits, panic sets in. "Oh my gosh, I haven’t laid the foundation for everything they need before they turn 18." There’s a real fear that they don’t have the skills to survive in the real world. It also comes down to brain development—teens can make impulsive decisions. Parents worry about the choices their kids might make. It really depends on the parent-child dynamic, but most parents I work with are very involved, and when their child turns 18, they realize they may not have the skills to survive independently.
Dr. Cam (05:33.459) Yeah, exactly. So, how do we start preparing our teens? Let’s be real—our number one job as parents is to prepare our kids to be independent, not to keep them dependent on us. I see some parents still wanting their kids to be dependent, or getting frustrated that their kids are still dependent when they’re old enough. How do we start preparing them to be independent but still want us, not need us?
Joanna Lilley (06:12.954) I love the distinction between needing and wanting. We do want our kids to communicate with us, to call us and tell us what’s going on in their lives—not call us because they don’t know their social security number! There’s a lot of logistical information parents can start to infuse in their kids' lives. Things like scheduling doctor’s appointments, understanding insurance, medications, filling prescriptions, setting alarms, doing laundry. These are the basic skills they need to survive independently. We should start incorporating these into their high school years. If they’re not working, they can volunteer—teaching them consistency, routine, and responsibility. Just because they’re an adult doesn’t mean life is all sunshine and rainbows. In fact, adulting is often mundane and tedious. So, we need to take the shine off of adulthood and show them the real responsibilities that come with it. That way, when they turn 18, they won’t be let down by all the adult responsibilities that come with it.
Dr. Cam (07:55.603) Right, and I can already hear some of my clients saying, “I would love to teach them these things, but they don’t listen. They don’t want to help around the house, and it’s just a constant battle.” How do we start teaching responsibility and these life skills if they’re resistant?
Joanna Lilley (08:27.066) Such a great question. Well, first and foremost, keep listening to this podcast for tips on how to communicate better with your teen. There are also objective resources, like professionals, who can help—whether that’s putting a coach in front of your child or for you as a parent. It’s about learning the subtle differences in how to ask your teen to do things or how to invite them into these “boring” adulting tasks. We want to get them excited about it. If you communicate it as something that’s not just an obligation but a skill to help them become an adult, they might buy in more. And, honestly, there are professionals who can help you make those subtle adjustments in how you communicate. If your automatic response is that they’ll push back or refuse and it leads to an argument, then let’s shift that dynamic. The earlier you do this, the more prepared your teen will be by the time they turn 18. And as a parent, you’ll be in a better place with communication and your dynamic will feel more like a partnership. At that point, you’re not just parenting a child—you’re parenting an adult, and they’ll want to communicate with you, not because they need to, but because they want to.
Dr. Cam (10:20.275): Yeah, I think that's so important, and getting there can be a struggle. One of the obstacles I see with a lot of parents is that we get very laser-focused on what our teen is not doing or what they're doing, and we think they just need to change. I keep reiterating to everyone: if your teen is not listening to you, if they're not respecting you, if they're resistant to anything you have to say, it's not your teen's fault. It's on you as the parent to change the dynamic. It's not about them needing to change, it's about you needing to change if you want to have the relationship you want with your teenager. That’s a difficult thing for people to accept. I’d love for you to speak to that a little, because I think one of the biggest obstacles we face as parents is thinking that if we change, it feels like they now have all the control, and we're changing for them, which doesn’t feel good either. Can you speak to that?
Joanna Lilley (11:30.458): Yeah, I literally had a conversation about this just last week. Parents feel like they have no voice. There's a level of powerlessness that builds up over time, creating this dynamic where parents feel like they have no control over their 18-year-old. They're going to totally run the house. To answer your question, there are resources out there, like books or podcasts, that can help. But I think it's important to understand that having power as a parent doesn’t mean shifting to an authoritarian style of parenting. It's about knowing what’s in your control and what you can do for your child. It’s about inviting them to participate in the family system, rather than falling into the parent-child dynamic where the child feels picked on or targeted. Like you said, we often focus on the negative, and that creates a negative dynamic. Parents are frustrated, the teen is irritated, and everyone is just walking around angry. If parents can learn about power—where it comes from and how it can be a beautiful thing for a parent to maintain—it can invite consent for the child to show up and participate how they want to.
Dr. Cam (13:20.243): Right, we can’t force things like respect, trust, or gratitude. Trying to force those things actually undermines what we're trying to do. Instead, if you see something lacking in your teen, rather than demanding it from them, increase how you demonstrate those qualities in your interactions with them and others when they’re around. That's how they’re learning. So, how do we model this as they turn 18? How do we ensure they have the skills to be decent and competent human beings? I think those are the two main things we worry about—are they going to be kind and competent? How do we model that in a way they’ll pick up on?
Joanna Lilley (14:30.81): Well, it's not something that’s going to happen overnight. The earlier you can start leaning into this, the longer the runway you have to role model and for your child to observe and replicate. As far as being a decent human being, ideally, that apple falls close to the tree. If you’re a decent person, your child will likely follow suit. If you're angry all the time, that’s how your child will show up in the world. Parents need to focus on mindfulness, managing their anger, impatience, and how they respond to situations. The earlier you focus on that, the better. If your child can observe you handling emotions well, they'll learn self-awareness, which will help them bring joy and peace to the world rather than anger. In terms of independent skills, we need to teach those earlier. It’s about preparing them for the world.
Dr. Cam (16:15.027): When our kids become more independent, we often struggle with letting go. It’s not just about our kids; it’s also about us wondering, “Did I do enough? Did I prepare them?” So how do parents start to let go, especially when they've been holding on really tightly? How do we shift into letting them go when we fear what might happen if they rely on themselves?
Joanna Lilley (16:57.018): This is a hard one, but it’s something I share with all my parents. I tell them it’s not just about them turning 18—it’s about what happens if something happens to you. Can they step up and take care of themselves? It's a tough realization, but we need to set them up for independence. They might launch earlier or later, and that’s okay. I also want to point out that sometimes, even if you raise someone well, they might still make poor choices in your eyes. But those are their decisions, and you have to learn to accept that. To answer your question about letting go, parents who are very involved often feel like they’re running a full-time job—driving their kids, coordinating schedules. When the child leaves, there's suddenly free time, and parents wonder, “What do I do with all this time?” I actually encourage parents to start thinking about what interests them before their child turns 18. Find activities you’re passionate about so that when your child leaves, you already have something to focus on. Letting go is easier when you’re doing things that are fulfilling to you. You've spent 18-plus years caring for someone else, so now it’s your turn to focus on yourself and trust that you’ve prepared your child to take care of themselves once they're over the age of 18.
Dr. Cam (20:16.179): Yeah, I think that's so important, and I love that. I tell parents the same thing: Get your own life. This is exciting for you! It's time for you to find new things, and your teens will thank you for it. They always do. They’ll thank you for not having all your attention on them because that’s way too much pressure, and they don’t want it. But I think when we’re letting our teens go, it’s important to realize that they’re going to make mistakes—sometimes really big ones. There’s nothing we can do to prevent that. And it's okay because we make big mistakes all the time, right? The goal is for them to be able to make mistakes and think, I want to go talk to mom and dad about that, rather than Oh my God, I need to hide this from mom and dad because they’re going to be so pissed off.
Joanna Lilley (21:09.658): Yeah, I think the one thing I would add here is that it’s not just about parents going out and having fun for themselves. The lesson here is that your child will realize you’re not available 24/7 to help them. So, let’s say you're playing pickleball with friends and away from your phone for three hours, and your kid is blowing up your phone because they needed you during that time. Well, you weren’t there to soothe them or provide whatever information they needed, so they had to figure it out on their own. That’s a great life lesson for them. Hopefully, it wasn’t an emergency, but it teaches them how to self-soothe. If your number-one lifeline is no longer available to them, they have to figure it out, brainstorm, critically think. They’re learning how to be interdependent, not just dependent. It’s an important skill for young adults.
Dr. Cam (22:31.251): Yeah, I think that’s an essential message for parents. One thing I’ve noticed with my own daughter is that when I’m in the vicinity, she regresses into this little kid who depends on mommy. But when I remove myself from the situation, she handles it just fine. She doesn’t regress, and she steps up, feeling like the adult. There’s not only the idea of removing yourself so they need to figure it out, but also removing yourself so they don’t fall into that "mommy, you take care of it" mode, which is very instinctual to do, right? When they start succeeding and figuring things out on their own, that’s where their confidence and resilience build because now they know they can handle it. That’s so cool.
What else do we need to know as parents of kids who are becoming of age and legal? Where does our responsibility start to shift, and where does it stop at this point?
Joanna Lilley (23:45.178): I think the priority area where I still see a lot of parental involvement is with insurance. Since many insurance policies allow young adults to stay on their parent’s insurance until age 26, there’s an extended period of care that just exists. Does that mean every 18-year-old should wait until they’re 26 to find a full-time job? Absolutely not. But that lifeline exists. I see parents having a hard time letting go of this. For example, in medical care, mental health care, or anything covered under insurance, I see parents really struggling to let go. But everything else depends on the family situation. It depends on the parents, the young adult, where they are geographically, and culturally what the family believes an 18-year-old should be doing—whether it’s living at home, going to college, or working full-time. That varies. But the one thing I see parents really holding onto, no pun intended, is insurance.
Dr. Cam (25:05.299): Yeah, that’s a big one. It’s tough when you’re paying for it, and you don’t want them making decisions that will increase costs. But maybe that becomes a consequence instead—if they make decisions that increase the costs, they’ll have to cover the difference. It’s hard because we often have this clear vision of what our kids should or shouldn’t be doing, and we try to control that, but it’s not ours to control. That’s really difficult for us to accept. They are completely different human beings with their own path. I always ask parents, How would you feel if your parents were still telling you daily what you should or shouldn’t do? We wouldn’t like it. At all.
Joanna Lilley (25:55.994): Hahaha
Dr. Cam (26:01.619): Alright, what’s one big takeaway you want parents to have from this episode, Joanna?
Joanna Lilley (26:09.306): The biggest takeaway is to not let the 18th birthday drive fear and worry. It’s just a date. Let it come, let it go, but prepare ahead of time so that date doesn’t create animosity or fear. Don’t give space to it.
Dr. Cam (26:38.611): I love that. And I think adding to that, it’s important to talk to your teen about their expectations when they turn 18 to see if you’re on the same page. That way, you can get to that stage together instead of both landing there and thinking, We are so far apart right now.
How can people find you, Joanna?
Joanna Lilley (27:03.546): The best way is on my website, www.lillyconsulting.com. You can also check me out as a host on the podcast, Success is Subjective.
Dr. Cam (27:14.931): I love it. I was on it—great podcast. Joanna, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you.
Joanna Lilley (27:23.162): Thanks again for having me!
 
About the Show:
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam #TeensTurning18