Tuesday Jan 21, 2025

How to Raise an Emotionally Intelligent Teen: Insights from Dr. Jenny Woo

In this episode of Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam, Dr. Cam Caswell and Dr. Jenny Woo explore the crucial role of emotional intelligence in parenting teens. They discuss how emotional intelligence influences relationships, communication, and teen development, and why it’s more important than ever in today’s world. Dr. Woo sheds light on the "emotional recession" affecting today's youth, and how technology, social media, and societal pressures contribute to emotional challenges. The conversation offers practical advice on how parents can model emotional regulation, resilience, and empathy to help their teens navigate their feelings, cope with emotional discomfort, and build stronger relationships.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE

The importance of emotional intelligence in parenting and how it shapes teen development.
Practical strategies for recognizing, understanding, and validating teen emotions.
The impact of social media and technology on emotional intelligence in teens.
How emotional discomfort is necessary for growth and how parents can foster resilience.
Why modeling emotional regulation is key for building a connection with your teen.

5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS

Emotions Are Data: Understanding your teen’s emotions can give you valuable insights into their needs and how to better support them. Recognize the nuances of emotions to improve communication.
Validating Emotions is Key: Dismissing your teen’s feelings can lead to a breakdown in communication. Validation fosters trust and helps teens feel seen and understood, encouraging stronger connections.
Resilience Through Discomfort: Letting your teen experience emotional discomfort helps them develop resilience and coping skills, which are essential for long-term emotional growth.
Model Emotional Regulation: Parents need to model healthy emotional regulation. Showing your teen how to manage emotions effectively is the first step in teaching them to do the same.
Empathy is Built Through Experience: Allow your teen to face challenges and even "micro failures." This builds empathy and teaches them how to navigate their emotions with greater maturity.

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EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 – Navigating Parenting and Emotional Intelligence
03:07 – Understanding Emotional Intelligence and Its Role in Teen Development
05:53 – The Emotional Recession: Why Teens Are Struggling with Emotions
08:56 – Deficits in Emotional Intelligence Among Today’s Youth
12:10 – The Impact of Technology and Social Media on Teen Emotions
15:00 – Building Resilience: How Parents Can Help Teens Cope with Emotional Discomfort
17:52 – Modeling Emotional Regulation as Parents
21:41 – Walking on Eggshells: Understanding Teen Emotions Without Overprotecting
24:35 – Validating Feelings: The Importance of Emotional Acceptance
29:55 – Empowering Teens: The Necessity of Autonomy in Emotional Growth
31:46 – Building Empathy: How Experience, Not Just Words, Cultivates Empathy
35:42 – The Myth of Coddling: Why Validating Emotions Doesn’t Lead to Weakness
40:20 – Fostering Connection: How Empathy Strengthens the Parent-Teen Relationship

CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Jenny Woo

CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Cam (00:01)
Parenting in today's world is not easy, especially when it comes to helping teens navigate their emotions and relationships. But what if we could equip our teen with a skill set that builds resilience, confidence, and stronger connections? That's where emotional intelligence comes in. In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Jenny Wu, a Harvard-trained educator, EQ researcher, and the brilliant mind behind mind-brain emotion.

Dr. Wu has spent her career bridging the gap between science and practice, creating tools like her award-winning card games, 52 essential conversations, and 52 essential coping skills used by families, schools, and workplaces worldwide. Dr. Wu's expertise has been featured in Forbes, PBS, Parents, and more. And she's here to share practical tips and proven strategies with us to help our teens thrive emotionally and…

Socially welcome. Dr. Wu Jenny. How are you?

Dr. Jenny Woo (01:00)
I'm doing well! Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Kim!

Dr. Cam (01:04)
Absolutely. And I was just telling you, I love emotional intelligence and talking about this. Tell us first, how did you get into this? What inspired you to specialize in emotional intelligence?

Dr. Jenny Woo (01:15)
Sure, you know, I've always been passionate in human development and very much worked through that from what I call the toddler years to the twilight years, really started in adult development, training, recruiting, you know, out of school, college graduates, grad students, and even senior leaders in the workplace to really understand, you know, how can you get that promotion? How can you be a good leader?

How can you get that on that career trajectory that you're passionate about? And from there, taught MBA students as well as undergrads. And then after having kids of my own, and that's also part of the reason why we're talking, right? Why I got into mind, brain, emotion, and emotional intelligence is really, realized, well, here I am teaching adults in the workplace, but realizing that myself, as a mom and at the time it was mom for three kids under three all in diapers, two are twins preemies. I realized, right? So Dr. Kam, when you mentioned, you know, we want to equip our teens with the skills, but we also want to equip ourselves in the context of parenting with these emotional fluency, awareness, intelligence, regulation skills ourselves.

So then that really just educated myself at home and so I wanted to learn more, then really pivoted my career into education, was a Montessori school director for little toddlers, to working in K-12, to then teaching at University of California Irvine with undergrads and graduate students. So long story short, I think emotional intelligence is so important yet so tricky because It's different in different situations, but that's the fun part as well, right?

Dr. Cam (03:11)
Yeah. Yeah. And so let's get into, for people that aren't as like geeky about emotional intelligence as we are, how would you define it to people? What exactly is it?

Dr. Jenny Woo (03:24)
Yeah, you know, honestly, it's really about being smart with your emotions. But what does that mean, right? So it starts with being able to recognize our emotions. What are we experiencing? And by emotions, I'm not just talking about mad, sad, you know, but the nuances, the precision of what we're experiencing, because if we're feeling lonely, or neglected versus feeling hurt or inferior. Those are very, very different emotions, even though they all come up to feeling sad. So emotions are data. So understanding what that data is telling us, deciphering it into insights and regulating, taking action and addressing what our emotions are telling us is about being emotionally intelligent. And it's also about agility, right? You know, it's impossible to feel happy at all times. And our goal as parents is not to help our teens to be happy at all times, right?

Dr. Cam (04:31)
Exactly. That is a very unfair expectation.

Dr. Jenny Woo (04:35)
extremely unrealistic and unfair, and rather it's really about honoring these emotions and even the mixtures of conflicting emotions and regulating and, you know, also within ourselves and within others as parents or as teens with their peers and building those healthy relationship skills and boundaries, right?

So that's what it is. It's knowing how to make emotions work for us and not against us.

Dr. Cam (05:11)
I love that because I think there's so much fear of emotions and I see a lot of parents because they create so much discomfort, their goal is always to get rid of the bad emotions and replace them with positive emotions. And I think we have this misunderstanding that emotional intelligence is always being okay. And what I love what you just said is it's information, it's data, it's really, it's understanding. Anger and sadness and embarrassment and all of these emotions that, like you said, there's such a wide range. And I think our emotional vocabulary is so constricted to like now it's just depression and anxious. It's all here. And there's so many more words that we're not utilizing and really defining to give us that insight in how we use it rather than trying to hide it. So tell me a little bit about how do you see right now the level of emotional intelligence in terms of just the new generation coming up.

Dr. Jenny Woo (06:17)
my goodness, I have so much to say. Well, you know, so I think, you know, think some of our listeners definitely have heard that we're in this epidemic of loneliness and isolation, right? But I would say beyond that, even before that, and this was just prior to the pandemic, I was really studying emotional intelligence in the academic world around, you know, the trends and the implications and how you can use it as a buffer for mental health.

Dr. Cam (06:19)
Good. Dang it.

Dr. Jenny Woo (06:47)
you know, problems. And even then there were meta analysis of studies showing that today's Western college students are less emotionally intelligent than they were a decade ago. And so you guys imagine this was pre pandemic. And so during the pandemic, we've done studies even on the little ones feeding up, right? How are they going to look? five, 10 years later, social, emotional, behavioral, right, skill sets. And, you know, right now what we're seeing trends is that, you know, unfortunately we are in an emotional recession. And so there's data, you know, provided by Six Seconds and also Gallup. I do a lot of speaking in the workplace at Google, cetera, and just did it with Kia, Conde, around how our Gen Z specifically. are really experiencing these emotional turmoil and they don't know who to turn to. And so you guys imagine, know, we're talking about teens when they go to college, you know, as a professor, I have college students coming to my office hour, you know, anxious about their life and their next steps and only thinking, you know, I've got to do this so that I can go to grad school, so then I can get that job, so then I can maybe after a few jobs finally do what

I love. And I was like, wow, that is so tiring and draining just hearing you saying that, know, gotta do this, gotta do this, should, could, would, you know. And in the workplace, know, Gen Zs are really experiencing the most burnout, sadness, and stress. That's what we're seeing. And so the question becomes, you know, like, what can we do now, right, to equip our kids? with these emotional intelligence skills, these coping skills, to be able to know what they want, right? Take actions toward it. And also, like you said, stay resilient, understand how to manage adversity in the tough times.

Dr. Cam (08:47)
Jenny, so many questions are coming up for me when you're talking about this and the biggest one is why? Because we, through the decades, we have learned about emotional intelligence. We've learned about how to express our emotions. We've learned about the power of empathy, especially as parents. So I feel like we're more equipped to help our kids develop emotional intelligence than we ever have in the past. So why are we at a deficit?

Dr. Jenny Woo (09:26)
Yeah, and you know, this is really sort of population level trends, right? Not to say that ourselves individually, we are doing well. And to our credit, to the parents' credit, we are more involved moms and dads than, you know, how we were 50 years ago. And to the credits of our teens, they are more aware of their mental health needs, right? And they are incredible advocates. passionate for belonging, others, for all the geopolitical issues and activism that we're experiencing. So I don't want to put this in the lens of a deficit, right? We need to focus on strength-based. I think going back to the foundational why, mean, honestly,

Dr. Cam, times are changing and they are accelerating changes rapidly. We've certainly gone through the pandemic. We have the combination of social media, the goods and bads and uglies, right? And sadly, economically speaking, our teens are less daring in terms of dreaming up.

that they'll move out of the house, they'll have their own house, right? You know, all those things because of the barriers that we are facing today that we're seeing, right? So I think it's more structural, systemic, and know, things that are sort of out of your control in some ways, right? So how do you deal and manage with the uncontrollables? That becomes yet another thing to think about.

But I think as parents, we need to give ourselves a pat on the back. It is extremely hard. But I do also have to call out that it's all about modeling too. And so for example, one of the things I've been talking about lately a lot is when we talk about social media or phone usage, these dopamine hits that we ourselves are very much drawn to.

I think it's important to understand how we behave and use technology, right, before we say anything else about our kids.

Dr. Cam (11:41)
Yeah, I agree with that because, and even when you were saying with all the stress, I keep seeing social media having a negative impact on parents and their expectations on their kids and themselves that they're relaying more so often than I see the negative impact directly to the teenagers. I see it through the parents. And I think we're missing that a lot.

Dr. Jenny Woo (12:10)
Absolutely. I actually just did a television interview around the phenomenon of phobbing. so, phobbing, right? okay. So it's a slang, but now it's in the dictionary about it's phone snubbing. And so when we are so drawn to scrolling our phone, whether it's for recreational or checking our email, that we ignore the person or our team next to us.

Dr. Cam (12:16)
I don't know what this is. How many?

Dr. Jenny Woo (12:37)
who is talking to us or maybe sending those social signals, right? That they need a hug or they're grumpy, maybe they want to unload some things, right? Talk about some things. So this fubbing phenomenon, I think it was just, the stats are crazy and that, you know, most of us have been fubbed and we are the fubber. And in fact, it also cuts into marriage and that I think something about 90 % of married couples are saying that, you know, fubbing is really ruining their relationship. And so Dr. Cam, you're absolutely right in that it is not just impacting our teens. We need to shift the view within ourselves and understand how we're, you know, role modeling or not.

Dr. Cam (13:23)
Yeah, I always mentioned that my daughter's better at managing her tech use than I am with mine. Like it's very, very addictive and you always have the excuse of it's work. You know, it's important. It's like, no, looking at dog TikToks is not work. Like that's just, I can't, right?

Dr. Jenny Woo (13:33)
Exactly. Right. And we're sending this signal that my work or the dog TikTok is more important and interesting than you. mean, that really hurts.

Dr. Cam (13:51)
Yeah, not good. It is. It's not good. So let's talk about because one of the things I hear a lot is, ugh, this generation, ugh, they're so wussy. we've made them so weak and we've made them so like they can't handle anything, which upsets me because I don't feel like they all got together and said, hey, we're going to be wussy. They're growing up as part of the environment that they're in. So it's not any, if they're struggling,

It's not on them, it's on the environment that's been created for them. So how do we help them become more resilient in a world that is far more, there's so much more stress, there's so much more pressure, there's so much more just distractions. How do we help our kids build that resilience and emotional intelligence?

Dr. Jenny Woo (14:43)
Dr. Cam, you know, as you mentioned, it's all about helping them to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, right? That emotional discomfort that experiencing. So as parents, our job is not to sweep all the negative emotions. And honestly, you know, a lot of parents say, how do I get rid of the bad emotions? My kids are experiencing all these bad emotions. And my point is, you need to re shift your mindset and understanding that there is no bad emotions, right? The negative emotions are really telling us what they need in terms of help, support, or maybe a different way of appraising, looking at something. And so taking those as cues for yourself, parents, as well as helping our teens understand what is it trying to say and being comfortable almost, you really accept that, you know, it's normal to feel these discomfort from just oddly weird emotions. Like you love your friend, but you're feeling jealous that they, you know, got that, you know, first place or getting a date or whatnot, you know? It's okay to hold these conflicting emotions at the same time. And you know what? It's okay that your emotional intensity at this time is rather high, whether because you're going through something, you're really stressed in other departments, right? So help them diagnose and understand the why behind it and the how, right? Building up those coping skills, right? Understanding what can you control in this situation? What can you not? And can you remove yourself from certain parts of the situation, right? To feel better. So those problem solving skills are also really important at this stage.

Dr. Cam (18:25)
It is, and it's I think for us, when we get caught up and we're all tired and overwhelmed and stressed, and I think we end up not being able to regulate our emotions very well sometimes. And this is one thing I'm always telling parents. I'm like, until you can regulate your own emotions, we can't really teach our kids how to regulate theirs very effectively. Because if they're seeing us lose it when we're upset, and then we get upset with them for losing it, it makes no sense.

Right? So modeling that. So how do we as parents, when we're stressed and we're overwhelmed and we're exhausted, how do we model emotional intelligence and regulation in front of our teens when we just, we're having trouble finding it?

Dr. Jenny Woo (19:13)
Yeah, you know, we're not perfect. And again, we're not modeling perfection. I think there's some beauty to it and the messiness of being a human to simply call it out. Say, I am not on my best self. you know, say and express it, the why in age appropriate manners because teens, they love to help you problem solve. They love to feel the sense of power. and ability to help out. And that is also an opportunity to help them express their empathy skills without pushing them, nudging them too much, And so just say, I had a bad day at work, I'm not feeling my best. And you can even say, in case something comes out of my mouth, I apologize for that. Or I am not at my best because something had happened.

We love your thoughts if you have time, interested, that kind of thing. Make it a conversation because so many times we feel like we're running into a wall when we're trying to pry these information out of them and you get the one word response. You're like, where do I go from there? And so start the conversation yourself. And this is also where we use our emotional intelligence skills to recognize their social cues. Are they latching on to certain things you said? Or do they seem really bored? Or they need to do something else, right? So then you can adapt what you say, what you share accordingly. But really, when we're having a bad day, don't force it, you know? Sometimes it's it's cloudy, know, almost time to rain and that's, the rain's not turning back, right? So you can remove yourself.

Right? Just in the intense moments, remove yourself, take a pause and regroup before you go back to, you know, whatever's needed.

Dr. Cam (21:15)
I always, I tell my daughter too, I always told her that I gave myself more timeouts than her ever, because timeouts were about calming down. They weren't a punishment ever, but they were about like a space to just calm down. And I'm like, I need a timeout. I needed to give them to myself a lot because I wanted to approach it with an even mind and it's very hard to do. So here's one of the things I hear from parents a lot that I want you to address.

I have to walk on eggshells because I'm worried that whatever I do is going to set my teen off. Please address that because that is completely emotional intelligence right there. What do we tell parents who are walking on eggshells?

Dr. Jenny Woo (21:56)
Yeah, and you know, I would say that feeling is absolutely real. In fact, a couple of years ago, the study came out of Stanford that really found that around the age of 13, our kids are almost like less drawn to their mother's voices in a way that's like repelling instead of attracting, right? because of this natural progression toward independence, individualization. So what that means is that they are anointed by you, you specifically, the mothers or really the parents, know, the people who have really been there for them this whole time, right?

Dr. Cam (22:34)
They are now annoying. Yes.

Dr. Jenny Woo (22:46)
Yeah, the way you chew, the way you look at them, right? And so you are very much feeling like you are walking on eggshells because anything could trigger annoyance, irritation, or just like one of those like remarks. You're like, where did that come from? Right? So first of all, don't take it personally. It's a developmental period. It's very tough for all of us, right? What you're feeling is real. And so I would lower your expectations of your ability to connect at some times, right? This is really sad to say for the person who came up with conversation skills, right? But we have to shift our expectations and our approach. And instead of, I think at this time, a lot of us are still sort of functioning in that realm where, you know, what's my agenda?

What do I want to do? You know, I need to make sure my kid's doing the right thing right now. Yeah, that's not going to work. That's not going to work. You're going to have to change your rhythm to your team's rhythm. And, you know, a lot of the times when they are ready to open up, it's usually the time, say, I find that at like right before bedtime when you are so tired yourself, right? .

And they are sleeping later, but you want to go to bed, right? So it's the most inconvenient times. But knowing that, I would really sort of pace yourself and allocate other times that are more, you know, when they're more open to be able to where, you know, it's less about walking on eggshells. They're more open to you.

Dr. Cam (24:17)
I think too when we were talking about the discomfort of difficult emotions and one of the things, and I'm curious to get your perspective on this because one of the things that I'll tell parents is they need to get comfortable with their kids not being okay or being upset and we're not about not, when we're tiptoeing around them, it's kind of showing, A, I'm kind of scared of your emotions and B, those emotions aren't okay rather than saying, I'm not going to tiptoe around you, I understand that they might upset you and being upset is okay. I'm just, I'm, that's something that you're going to do. You validate that. You say, yes, you're feeling upset. And it's more about setting the boundary of how they can express that to you of what you're comfortable with rather than trying not to get them to be upset. Is, let me, let me hear your perspective of that. Am I accurate on this?

Dr. Jenny Woo (25:28)
Yeah, yeah, I absolutely, I love that. And thank you so much for calling this out, right? Because, okay, another thing to remember is that emotions are states. They are temporary. They are transient. They're like the weather system. They will go away and it will be sunny again. You know, again, it will become cloudy. So as parents, we need to recognize that, you know, it's not all or nothing or end of the world. If your team is exploding, it will go away. And your goal is to give them that perspective that it will get better with time. It will go away. And honestly, that is how you build wisdom, right? And experience knowing that, you know, maybe an embarrassing thing happened. You, you cringy, you know, like all those things, all those influx of emotions. And they need to be able to express that, irritation, because one of the...

One of the developing the best team coping skills, is, which is really our kryptonite is that our teams are great at dumping their emotions, their distress on their parents. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So parents, you're the emotional dumpster, you know, you, you. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (26:36)
Yeah, safe place. You're welcome. Yeah. It's a compliment.

Dr. Jenny Woo (26:46)
because they will unload everything on you and they actually feel better in the meantime you are distraught anxious and going and worry like my gosh what are they what am i gonna do do i need to do anything they are you know like feeling upset which in the meantime they're less upset as you're thinking this

Dr. Cam (26:49)
Right, they've just done what they needed to do. And Jenny, I want to bring that up because I think that's the other big thing because parents are like, well, I'm walking on eggshells because I don't want them to explode because it's exhausting to me. And I think what I'm seeing is the reason that it's exhausting to us is because we feel like we need to step in and fix it and change it. And that's what's exhausting. If we let go of that need, if we go, that's their emotion, they need to work through it and it's okay and I'm here, but I'm letting go of the need to fix it. It's not exhausting.

Dr. Jenny Woo (27:43)
Exactly. Yeah, you know, like one of the biggest myth that I talk about at emotional intelligence is that a lot of parents and just people in general feel like, I'm empathic, empathetic, you know, I can tune into kids emotions, other people's emotions, I'm emotionally intelligent. That's absolutely wrong, because the other part of emotional intelligence is being able to regulate your emotions and those around you. So in this case, when you become that emotional dumpster. You are holding on to so many emotional baggage of yourself, your spouse, your kids. How can you emotionally intelligent, being emotionally intelligent to be able to sort of unload that for yourself or not carry that recognizing like you said Dr. Camp that this is my emotional boundary. I am here as a holding vessel but it's not my responsibility to carry it forever.

So concretely speaking, it is about reminding yourself, these are all my control and these are not my emotions. You know, my goal has been served. I'm here to listen, but that's done. It's their sort of problem to solve, right? Their skills to build situations to understand and, know, building into, ways of unloading your emotion, whether it's taking a walk, doing journaling or treating yourself, right, to a nice massage. Being able to have that menu of syncing up with yourself and regulating your own emotion is about being emotionally intelligent.

Dr. Cam (29:19)
Absolutely. And a lot of parents will say, well, when do I have time to do all this? I'm so busy. And I say, when you stop spending all your time trying to change how your teen is feeling and trying to fix everything for your teen, you have tons of time to take care of yourself. And then it's something great for your teen because now you're giving them autonomy and the chance to learn how to take care of themselves. And it's like the best gift. But it's so hard for parents to embrace doing less is doing more for your teen.

Dr. Jenny Woo (29:56)
I love that. Yes. That's what I say all the time. Doing less is doing more. And this includes holding your tongue sometimes by saying less is saying more. And Dr. Cam, you write as a mom of teens and twins, twins. And, you know, I'm like, where is self-care time? Right. And I tell people, don't just focus on the self-caring part because that is yet another obligation. Think about how to enable others to care for you. And one of the easiest thing is to say, you know what, this is your problem. You got, you know, a C or D or you, you know, something you're going to have to figure out step by step. I'll give you the tools, help you, you know, understand how to smart goals, blah, blah, blah. But you need to take that process and take, take that step to fix it. That is caring for you, right? When they are doing what they need to do instead of you. hovering over them, know, nagging, right? That's saying, saying more, doing less, really. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (30:55)
Yeah, exhausting. Yeah. And I think part of this too is how do we, I think a lot of parents too, they're doing this because they're trying to teach their kids the critical thinking skills and the emotional regulation skills and empathy. But what I see a lot is they're trying to teach them by doing it for them over and over again. So how do we teach? And I think empathy is a big one that parents struggle with because

Adolescence is a very egocentric phase. so empathy does not exude from teenagers and parents feel like, my God, I'm raising this kid that has no empathy whatsoever, especially for me. How do we address that in our kids if we feel like they're not developing empathy right now?

Dr. Jenny Woo (31:46)
Yeah, you know, one of the biggest thing coming out of empathy is really relating to suffering, right? Understanding how it feels like really walking in the shoes and the reality and we, know, Dr. Kim, you also just mentioned that parents doing everything for the kids, right? When you're doing so much for the kids, there is no ways for them to contribute. Contribution builds empathy, but also when you're not enabling them to take these micro failures, I understand as a parent this day and age, right, failure mistakes are high stakes. I understand that, but there are micro failures, okay? Getting a bad grade on a quiz or on a test, it's okay, right? So allowing them to experience these pleasant emotions, having been there themselves experiencing the sufferings and their lens, right, and their world. They're better able to relate to others, to their peers. And this may even go with exclusion, right? You don't know how being excluded feel like until you've kind of felt some of that, right? And the parents, right, even starting young or setting up these play dates, working out the conflicts with other parents of the kids who are, you know, did something, said something wrong, right?

Those are paving the way, but your kids have never experienced what it feels like. How can they even begin to relate to others, you know, and help others in expressing those empathy? So again, it goes back to doing less, right, to have more impact. Yeah.

Dr. Cam (33:28)
I think also being able to empathize with our kids, even if we think it's silly, you know, like if they're coming home with something and they're stressing out, a lot of times we as parents, and I say we because I do this too, we try to be like, it's not so bad or it's not going to, you don't have to worry about it or it's not a big deal. That's not empathizing. That's dismissing. And so they stop, they don't learn how to empathize when they're not being empathized with.

I think too, and I think we have to be really very, very intentional on how are we modeling empathy towards them.

Dr. Jenny Woo (34:09)
Yes, yes, always validate their feelings, right, before problem solving. It might be a small, you know, no deal, like a small thing to you, but it's a big deal in their eyes. And it's important to honor what they're feeling when they feel respected and heard and understood. That's how feeling on the receiving end of empathy feels like. And they love that. They want to help other people to feel that. And also it's not just a dyad type of dynamic where, you know, we're always thinking of either the parent or the teen, but you can also model that, you know, with other people in front of them, whether it's their friends, your significant other, even a character in the movies, you know, even an antagonist in like a story. Right? So being able to really model that in all different contexts will help your team understand how to express it.

Dr. Cam (35:15)
Yeah, I think it's so important and Jenny, I want to ask you too, because I know and of course I'm on social media all the time too, but I think one of the most ridiculed parent tip that a lot of other people will say is this, like, why do we have to validate their emotions? Isn't that what's making them so weak? Isn't that what's coddling them? And I hear this a lot. And I would love your response, because I work with teens, so I know exactly the impact it has. But I'm curious from your perspective, what do you have to say, not that we're going to convince anyone differently, but I just want to hear from you. What do you say to that belief that recognizing and validating emotions is coddling and weakening our kids?

Dr. Jenny Woo (36:03)
Yeah, and you know, there's so much actually gendered nuance to that as well, right? We tend to do more of that to boys, right? Because when we validate, we're acknowledging maybe you're weak, right? You can't handle it. And so there's also a cultural aspect as, you know, Chinese American, right? I find that a lot of people of color, you know, families are, you know, suck it up. I am an immigrant. I had to deal with this and this and this. You, you just have to focus on school, right? So yeah, exactly. So, so those are sort of the dynamics that I see a lot. But you know what? As someone who teaches college students, I can't tell you how many behind the door conversations I have with these amazingly achievement-focused driven college students that go all the way back to, well, my parents said this, I can't be happy. I am not enough. And why am I so weak? I should be able to handle it. And they really just keep going and going, not having that emotional awareness of the fact that they need help. They need support.

And so this help seeking behavior becomes nonexistent and they don't have that barometer of understanding when enough is enough or when they need to slow down and take a break. And I can also tell you, when I mentioned I work with Twilight years as a cognitive neuroscience researcher, I did a lot of interventions with adults 70 plus.

And it was really about their memory intervention, right? How to build strength and working memory, all that good stuff. But what comes up is really this growth mindset of, you know, like, I can't do it because when I was young, you know, I was told and, you know, and dealing with those emotions, again, the mixed emotion of I am getting older, right? But yet I'm getting more mature, you know, sort of just the good and the bad, right?

So I would say, recognize, are you doing this only to your sons or also to your daughters, right? And what are some of the upbringing messages as parents that you have heard that you're carrying on to your kids? Is that appropriate? And what's the worst that could happen by acknowledging your kids' emotions, right? What's the worst that could, only the good, right? And we do this to ourselves. We have less self-compassion because we say this.

like suck it up to ourselves and we are hesitant to give ourselves credit because we feel like that will make us complacent, right? We do the same thing and look at ourselves, all the anxiety and the stress we're experiencing because of this very same act. So, you know, for those who are not brought up this way, I would say experiment, keep an open mind, right? Yeah.

Dr. Cam (38:58)
It is so incredible. And I talk to teenagers every single day. And it's exactly that the messages that they're getting if they're struggling is not, it doesn't make them feel better to say, it up, or you can do this or not validate those emotions. It doesn't make those emotions go away. It makes them feel shame for those emotions and makes them kind of hold them in and make them resent.

their parents and the people that told them that rather than helping them express and deal with them. So there's a lot and like you said, at 70, they're still have that because that happened when those formative years, which is adolescence of how we form our identity and how we recognize our emotions and learn to manage them. So I think it's so important and I love just just try it because it is absolutely amazing when you do validate.

The connection it builds between you and the trust and respect it builds between you and your child too, which is the foundation of everything else you do as a parent.

Dr. Jenny Woo (40:20)
Yeah, and can I call out something Dr. Kim, you just said that really hit home, Resentment. You said that word. And let me put it into the parenting context, right? We experience resentment and bitterness when we are not being acknowledged by others, people in our family, right?

Dr. Cam (40:23)
Of course you can.

Dr. Jenny Woo (40:43)
whether you're a stay at home mom, a working mom, you know, sometimes we go through these motions of doing the parenting role without being acknowledged, recognized and understood like, wow, this is a really hard job. You know, I don't care if you're working, not working. This is really, really hard. When's the last time somebody told us that, right? When's the last time we said that to our partner or being told of that, right? So that fosters a lot of resentment. And this really is the very same effect to our teens. mean, come on homework these days. Like they are crazy. The volume, the sheer volume, the sheer like acceleration of content, right? What's the last time we said to our teens, wow, I cannot do what you do. I, this was not my teenage years, right? So, so being, that is a sign of respect. That is a sign of relating, which is one of the key elements that our teens need right, to feel powerful, to feel understood. And so again, try it, do it, you know, and it's expressing empathy.

Dr. Cam (41:48)
Exactly. That's where they learn to empathize is when they feel that empathy and validation back. So Jenny, we are up on time. We've gone over, because I love this topic, but tell us where people can find you, first of all.

Dr. Jenny Woo (42:03)
Absolutely. You can find me on Instagram or Facebook. It's at MindBring Parenting. My tools, free resources are on my website, which is mindbraingemotion.com. And I have a YouTube channel with lots of free life skills for teens, tweens, and kids. And it's at MindBring Emotion. I'm also on LinkedIn.

Dr. Cam (42:27)
Fantastic. And what is one big takeaway from all of this, because we covered a lot, that you want parents to at least walk away, if they walk away with one thing, what is it going to be? I know.

Dr. Jenny Woo (42:38)
my goodness. We said so many. I would say, you know, I really like this message of doing less and having more impact. So parents smart, everyone. This is the time to allow your teens to experience emotional discomfort, to struggle a bit to really understand but validate their emotions along the way and give support when it's time.

Dr. Cam (42:47)
That is wonderful, wonderful advice. second that completely. Thank you so much, Jenny, for joining us. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Jenny Woo (43:14)
thank you, Dr. Cam. This is so much fun.

About the Show:

The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is a valuable resource for parents navigating the challenges of raising teens. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, a clinical psychologist and certified parenting coach, the podcast offers expert advice, practical parenting strategies, and insights to help you connect with your teen, improve communication, and support their emotional development. Whether you’re looking for strategies to address teen behavior or improve your relationship, each episode is packed with actionable tips and real-world advice. #ParentingTeens #EmotionalIntelligence #TeenParenting #TheTeenTranslator

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